What machine do you have?

I’m assuming you don’t weigh the amount of beans you want to use for each brew in this machine and have just filled a hopper full of beans?
If so then the vast difference between the amount you used to use and the machine uses is just down to what the manufacturer deems an appropriate amount of coffee for a brew, nothing to do with grind size it just brews a stronger coffee.
It’s not that some coffee needs x amount but others need more, you can use whatever amount you like to fit your tastes.

You could control this by weighing the specific amount of beans you want to use and just adding that to the hopper each time or depending on the machine you use change the amount of coffee it grinds.

 

Hi there.
AromaFresh filter coffee machine with grinder
This machine. No you don't weigh the beans, or use a scoop to "use what you want".

I think the issue is maybe the grind? I cn show you a pic of my ground coffee from a store. It looks more like "mellow birds"... haha. But in old filter only machine, it's make a good coffee. I'd say you do't get the same "caffeine boost" I get from fresh. But it's still strong. for just roughly 10 or 11g of gorund coffee, for around 350 or 375 water.

I read about why a finer grind is not good for filter machines. Can you please help?

 

Ah ok, you could try changing the brew strength setting to mild to see if that changes the amount of coffee used but I’m not familiar with that machine so not sure what the brew strength setting changes.

I’m not sure what you mean by issue, looks to me like you are just used to using less coffee in your brews than the average person, which is fine, but your coffee machine is going to use what the manufacturer deemed to be appropriate amount of coffee for a brew.
How are you finding the coffee from the machine?

A finer grind isn’t desirable for filter due to the fact that extraction rate increases the finer you go because of the increased surface area which can then result in an over-extracted brew due to the longish contact time in a filter brew.

 

I've tried various settings. I do get a settings that makes a great coffee. Don't get me wrong. My concern is the amount it uses.

I'm use to a 250G pack of ground lasting me a fair while. but I keep pouring in the beans thinking "wow this uses wayyyy more coffee...". I think it is down to the grind... ie. finer grind extracts more of the flavour, thus less coffee actually needed. I agree the taste is different. but so difficult to explain that difference. It's not a bitter taste. Dry? Not sure.

How would you describe the flavour of 'over extracted' brew? Bear in mind, I've been use to this sort of grind with a filter or even cafetière forever! Hence why using so much more coffee is a costly concern.

 

The grind size is one of the variables that affects the extraction of solubles in coffee, along with water temp, water contact time etc.
Having a finer grind would extract more solubles in a given time than a coarser grind but if the courser grind is properly extracted then you won’t necessarily get more “flavour” from the finer grind, just more solubles that contribute to bitterness (over-extraction).
Say for example if 20% of the soluble compounds in coffee are what we want and what make up the desirable flavour in coffee and we can extract that using a coarse grind with the appropriate water temp and contact time then a finer grind isn’t going to change that or extract more of those solubles because there isn’t more to extract, it would just change the rate that those solubles are extracted from the coffee and also extract more solubles that contribute to bitterness.

 

For brewed coffee the usually accepted ratio is 75 gms coffee to a litre of water.
For an electric brewer 50 - 60 gms per litre is recommended.
I suspect the coffee you have become used to is quite weak.

 

I would say the bean to cup means produces a smoother flavour... that wow flavour. Whereas the pre-ground that I have got, is more of an espresso flavour.. but definitely less "smooth".

To reply to El Carajillo, about being use to weaker coffee - not too sure. I see why you might suggest that, with less coffee, but I am a stickler for good flavoured, strong coffee. In fact in the UK I can't stand Starbucks' Americano as it is just too weak. I prefer their filter, tho they hardly ever have it on.

But that's my point, I like it with a full flavour. I'm a "Mug of coffee" drinker, rather than espresso.
It's probably the "love for America" in me, where they have filter by the truck load, rather than Espresso.

I made coffee this morning with my ground... a heaped "standard" coffee scoop. to make two smallish cups (around 350MLs in total). It did taste different. But so difficult to explain.

 

Yeah I agree with El Carajillo, the amount of coffee you are used to using is just less than the standard, you may have perceived your brews as strong due to the extra undesirable solubles that don’t contribute to a well brewed and rounded cup of coffee.
The fact that you describe the brews from your machine as having that “wow flavour” says to me you are now getting a proper extraction with the right combination of solubles for your palette so I see no real “issue”, apart from the fact that making good coffee is more expensive.

 

Can I ask how you might describe the flavour of "the extra undesirable solubles"?

It is a culture shock. I mean a bag of 1KG beans was only about £9.99 (tho it was free!)... and I've had a lot of coffee from it. So price wise, it's up, but still cheaper than the poor Americano I get in Starbucks.

Do you think if I ground some fresh beans to the finer amount, I would still get that 'undesirable' as you put it. Or that plus the 'wow' hit of coffee?

 

Bitterness essentially.

That’s cheap for 1kg of beans, to put it into perspective I pay around £30 for a kilo from my favourite roaster in the UK for freshly roasted beans and that’s a pretty average price from artisan roaster that roast fresh to order.

mid you grind finer and use less coffee you will just get the same as before, I suspect that “wow” you are referring to is the extra desirable solubles that contribute to things like sweetness and acidity that you are now extracting due to using a higher dose of ground coffee to water ratio.

 

There is a coffee called San Francisco, which is an American brand of course (durr!). I'm just trying to find good ones that are not super expensive. I got one from TK Maxx as well, Slumberjack Coffee beans, Irish company. £4.99 for 500g.

Can anyone recommend a good bean I can buy online, that isn't hugely costly... just to see if I can taste the diff between these, and maybe a £15 or so one?

Yes there is def a difference in flavour. No question. But difficult to explain what that difference is. To be, bitterness is a lemon or lime. Neve thought of coffee flavour as bitter.... so difficult for me to use that term.

 

I have never bought beans that cheap and have never seen any freshly roasted beans at that price, only beans that were roasted months ago which I don’t like so I can’t advise of any.

I buy from foundrycoffeeroasters.com mostly as they roast some fantastic beans and they really know how to get the best out of them in terms of the roast profiles, many on the forum would vouch for them. Turns out my favourite beans from them are a little more at £36.50 per kg and they are well worth it!
But you will pay similar prices for any freshly roasted good quality coffee.

There is a cheaper french brand I had recently that I enjoyed called Cafes Lugat, it was their Moka Yirgacheffe and I think that came to £23 plus shipping. Not as fresh or tasty as the coffee I get direct from UK roasters but it was decent.

If you do decide to spend a little more on trying a good quality coffee there are a load of good roasters that roast fresh to order and you will 100% taste the difference between stale beans that have been sitting on a shelf for months and beans that were roasted right before being shipped to you.
If you want recommendations take a look in the beans section of the forum

 

Hi there.
Since changing from ground to beans, initially from around £1.50 a 227G pack to £10 per KG for beans (and using more), I don't think I"m ready yet to go to £23 per KG.

I'm still debating whether a bean to cup is better than a separate grinder and filter.

I didn't go for a bean to cup espresso as I prefer a "mug" of coffee rather than a small cup. Plus if I am making multiple cups, it's just easier. Tho I rarely make multiples.

The Slumber JAck one I got has turned out nice, and can tell the difference between that coffee and the Melitta one I got with the machine. So am just trying out various beans.

 

...I don't think I"m ready yet to go to £23 per KG...

Coffee beans are available at different prices, some are dirt-cheap, some are mid-range (average) and some border on utter madness (price wise).

One mans expensive is another mans cheap...we all put "value" on things differently to each other; beans being no exception. So if i told you that my "average" price per kilo is £38 you'd probably be foaming at the mouth...yet some would probably look at me as a cheapskate.

But they (beans) are available for all budgets...whether they are worth the price you pay is a decision only you can make...some would argue that "you get what you pay for in this world"

Some people say Coffee is a drug, which then reminds me of a movie-scene in Pulp Fiction with Lance (drug dealer)...Quote :-

"this one's a little more expensive. It's fifty-five. But when you shoot it, you'll know where that extra money went."

As my Granny would say "you pays yer money, you makes a choice". ☕

 

Love that saying. Not seen the movie, but I know of it.
Do most here use a separate grinder and filter? This morning I tried mine on '4' cup and 2 strength. But man it was like a treble espresso which I am not a fan of. I just like that typical American diner mug of coffee. Not the Spanish/Italian small cup with the punch.

 

It's common for bean-to-cup filters to use more coffee than pre-ground packs due to a coarser grind. Adjust the grind size and coffee-to-water ratio to find your preferred taste. Experiment with different settings until you achieve the desired strength and flavor. You may need to use slightly more coffee with bean-to-cup machines to get the same intensity.