[r.bartlett]

I never claimed to be an "expert" and certainly not "above" him..... but to be frank wtf is "food on a micro biological level"...

Is that like chopping it up really, really small?

well if you ever manage to get your people to talk to his people and book a table -come back and we can compare notes.

 

[MrShades]

Well well well...

I've now had a good look at the photograph of the "coffee menu" that I took on Saturday, and googled some of the narrative.

They are VERY VERY obviously Nespresso descriptions - almost word perfect from the Nespresso capsule descriptions.

Still - the ristretto that I had was pretty good, tasty and had good crema and mouthfeel.... so I guess they have a well looked after Nespresso machine!

Reinforces my thoughts that, if you just want a cup of drinkable coffee with minimal fuss and almost zero mess, and don't have any deep desire to understand the process and become a Barista - you should just buy a Nespresso machine.

 

[Dylan]

Well well well...

I've now had a good look at the photograph of the "coffee menu" that I took on Saturday, and googled some of the narrative.

They are VERY VERY obviously Nespresso descriptions - almost word perfect from the Nespresso capsule descriptions.

Still - the ristretto that I had was pretty good, tasty and had good crema and mouthfeel.... so I guess they have a well looked after Nespresso machine!

Reinforces my thoughts that, if you just want a cup of drinkable coffee with minimal fuss and almost zero mess, and don't have any deep desire to understand the process and become a Barista - you should just buy a Nespresso machine.

The official Nespresso caps I have used at my mums produce a surprising amount of crema and a decent shot, before a manual setup they really are a very good option. Hard to ever recommend a B2C for convenience with Nespresso about really.

 

[Drewster]

Whilst that expression is a bit fluffy, there is nothing wrong with taking flavour and taste down to its constituent parts to learn how things interact. We do this with coffee as much as we can, and understanding how something works is integral to becoming an expert in just about any field.

The sensationalist fluff of "studying at a micro-biological" level may be a bit OTT, but studying food is a perfectly constructive thing to do.

I have tried to explain - I have no issue at all with Heston's "fluff".....

He makes food a "multi-sensual-experience".... as I mentioned above he is very good at theatre... and that really is not a bad thing..

He doesn't chuck a couple of prawns on a plate with a slice of lettuce - He serves them in scallop shells with a personal I-pod hidden in a conch shell subliminally playing sounds of the sea-shore and has miniature fans gently wafting the essence of fresh kelp etc etc....

All of which makes the occasion so much more than a "prawn cocktail".....

My issue is/was about "celebrity endorsement" (in the case of Sage the "endorsement" is by Heston) not being aimed at the members of this forum....

I doubt many on the forum would buy the Sage because it is/was "endorsed" be Heston.

I would imagine (and some reading of previous threads would confirm anecdotally) that Heston's "endorsement" of the Sage would actually put off many forum members rather than encourage them to buy it (because Heston has given no indication that he knows Jack about coffee).

I would think that most forum members who have bought (or are thinking of buying) a Sage do it despite Heston.....

I feel I have repeated myself enough now but you know how it is - "I cannot rest! Something on the Internet is WRONG!"

 

[d_lash]

There's a nespresso machine at one of the places I work and while it clearly is better than a lot of the alternatives in that sort of environment it's a long long way from a well made espresso.

If I was eating at The Fat Duck (still plan to one day, assuming it comes back from Australia in one piece... sniff) I'd want a heck of a lot better, given the extraordinary attention to detail that goes into the food, the skill level of the chefs / staff and the general expectation of gastronomic perfection. It surprises me.

 

[hotmetal]

I had a set of jim bowen endorsed darts..

I think that's a load of Bull . [emoji202]

Sorry couldn't resist!

I thought about a Sage DB but like Drewster said, it was not because of Heston Services. In fact, that put me off a bit because I was worried that people would think I was a celeb chef fan. The main reason I considered it was because up until we started hearing of the problems, it sounded like a good machine. Also I could have got a trade deal which would have made it the same price as it would probably sell for if it didn't have the Heston badge. I don't go a bundle on celebs full stop, let alone pay extra for a name of someone who is famous for something else.

I'm surprised that he would offer a Nespresso to people who are dining at the fat duck. Amongst those will be some who have gone there for the celeb thing (if Heston isn't enough, er, Rolf Harris lives nearby!) but surely he would realise that a fair proportion would be knowledgable and adventurous foodies who are equally discerning in what they drink.

If I ever get the chance to go there I'll tell you if the coffee is Nespresso. I can taste one a mile off, having tried them all at work.

 

[jeebsy]

Coffee is still quite neglected in high end restaurants. The coffee I got in Le Gavroche was barking - classic 'double espresso' which filled about a 5oz mug. Noma seem to be trying to change this.

 

[d_lash]

Maybe when the FD gets to Melbourne the locals will let him know what they think about pod coffee...

 

[monkey66]

Important not to confuse the machine debate with the endorsement. We all know the machine was available long before HB put his name on it in the UK.

I ate at the Fat Duck a few years ago, great experience of us but not one you need to repeat.

NB - thinking back to when I read HB's Fat Duck book I am pretty sure he says he doesn't get coffee, and does not really enjoy it. Perhaps he has become enlightened in the last few years?

 

[MWJB]

I thought Mr Shades had established that it was Nespresso?

 

[Olliehulla]

£4.95 for a Nespresso !? That is some mark up !!

 

[MWJB]

How much would you pay for a hand crafted coffee, in a restaurant, if mark up was expected to be in line with food?

BTW, it was 2 Nespresso's, wasn't it?

 

[jeebsy]

Perhaps he has become enlightened in the last few years?

Apparently it was a shot from a Breville/Sage that turned him (that's what the person demoing the DB when it came out told me)

 

[charris]

£4.95 for a Nespresso !? That is some mark up !!

In a 3 start michelin restaurant that is easily a bargain.

Mr Shades, I am very much interested if you are willing to describe more on the experience and also on the food in general. I would love to visit it next time I am in the UK.

 

[MrShades]

Well, when we were there on Sat there was someone else there blogging and photographing the full experience. I'll find the link to their blog which describes and shows it all very well.

Don't think of it as a meal - as it's more of an experience, like a west end show or other memorable event that lasts 4hrs.

Would I go back? Yes, if there was a different menu but not if there wasn't. Again, would I watch a show again - prob not - but id watch the same cast in the same theatre perform s different show!

Here you go... It may spoil the magic for some so don't read or look unless you really want to: http://www.therunnerbeans.com/2014/11/lunch-fat-duck.html

 

[charris]

Well, when we were there on Sat there was someone else there blogging and photographing the full experience. I'll find the link to their blog which describes and shows it all very well.

Don't think of it as a meal - as it's more of an experience, like a west end show or other memorable event that lasts 4hrs.

Would I go back? Yes, if there was a different menu but not if there wasn't. Again, would I watch a show again - prob not - but id watch the same cast in the same theatre perform s different show!

Here you go... It may spoil the magic for some so don't read or look unless you really want to: http://www.therunnerbeans.com/2014/11/lunch-fat-duck.html

Compared to another 3 star? Gordon Ramsay or a classic like Alain Ducasse?

 

[Yes Row]

He was on an advert during the Walking Dead this week, promoting them. Not seen the advert on terrestrial TV

 

[Olliehulla]

In a 3 start michelin restaurant that is easily a bargain

I disagree. Yes I understand the relativity of pricing given you're in a top end fine dinning establishment and yes you would expect to pay more for the dining experience where you are being served sublimely prepared food but then to be served a capsule espresso (if indeed it was a nespresso, jury still seems to be out on that one), seems lazy, at odds with the ethos of a 3 michelin star restaurant and is therefore, in my opinion, not a bargain.

 

[charris]

I disagree. Yes I understand the relativity of pricing given you're in a top end fine dinning establishment and yes you would expect to pay more for the dining experience where you are being served sublimely prepared food but then to be served a capsule espresso (if indeed it was a nespresso, jury still seems to be out on that one), seems lazy, at odds with the ethos of a 3 michelin star restaurant and is therefore, in my opinion, not a bargain.

It is like going to stay at a £1k per night hotel room and complaining that the coke can in the mini bar is expensive at £4 or the room service burger is expensive at £30.

Thinking more on this the most expensive coffee I have had was at the George V in Paris. €15 for a cappuccino. Rip off in any way imaginable, but can I really complain? it is an expensive place and the prices are in the menu.

First time I went to Ramsey at Hospital road 15 years ago they sat us in a small lounge area and asked us if we want an aperitif, a glass of champagne. Of course we went for it, it was charged £36 each glass in the bill. Same at Ducasse in Paris, aperitif glass of wine was €60 each. And I know wine is different to coffee but these are prices per glass.

I don't disagree with you at all with regards to the coffee but when you go to spend £200++ per head then everything starts becoming relative in a kind of strange way.

 

[hotmetal]

Yeah but the point is, would Gordon Ramsay sell you a glass of Asti Spew-manti for £36 and tell you it was premier cru? I have no issue with the price part of this argument, it's the disparity between quality of food and quality of coffee served, when one could be forgiven for thinking that a top notch restaurant catering for connoisseurs might put in a bit more effort given the potential expectations of the guest. The expensive Coke in the grand-a-night hotel room is still Coke. It sure ain't gonna be Panda Pop.