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#2,701 ·
Slowpress said:
He & Gabor (NakedPortafilter)) have used this with the Flair lever, too! I don't think people realize just how interesting/illuminating this tool can be, and a great amount of fun, too, especially if you like to match profiles from machine to machine, copy someone's espresso extraction, etc. Terrific!
Click to expand...
Looks great. But it costs more than the Robot itself!
 
#2,705 ·


After the HOST Milano trade show, I was given 8 liters of heavy whipping cream, that went unused in the stand's "granita" machine. As this cream has an expiry date of tomorrow (November 1) I'm making LOTS of ice cream.

I was also gifted by Cafezal https://cafezal.it/ some beautiful single origin Ethiopian beans http://www.thebigfive.store/ethiopia/ roasted in Kenya by Big Five http://www.thebigfive.store/about-us/

My recipe:


  • 500ml 30% heavy cream

  • 3 shots of espresso, using Rao's Blooming Espresso profile (15g in, 45g out)m about 150ml total. You want length and balanced acidity in your shots, to make this an interesting ice cream.

  • 200ml of milk

  • Sugar to taste

  • Vanilla essence to taste
Blend and freeze in an ice cream machine.

For extra credit:


  • instead of vanilla essence, use an oaked rum with strong vanilla flavor notes

  • the alcohol in the rum lowers the melting point. This makes for a more pleasant creamier texture when serving ice cream directly from my home freezer. My chest freezer sits at -28ºC, so I usually have to put ice cream in my refrigerator 30 minutes before serving, to soften it up.

  • I don't think you can buy ice cream commercially with this much alcohol, as it'd require a liquor license. That makes it something particularly special to make at home.
 

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#2,706 ·
Bluetooth milk thermometer?

I'm ordering a new batch of our digital milk thermometers https://decentespresso.com/milk_thermometer as we're down to 100 Celsius thermometers in stock. This new batch will have a water proof coating on the thermometer PCB, for improved water resistance.

When talking to Mingle (our thermometer manufacturer https://www.mingle-instrument.de/digital/) I also brought up the topic of adding bluetooth to it.

They said that they can't add bluetooth to the existing thermometer, as there's not enough space.

But they propose this two-part bluetooth thermometer (photo attached) to me, which they made in 2015 for another company:
At Google London a few years back, I saw that their La Marzocco Espresso Machine had a probe like this clipped permanently on the steam wand. In their case it was simply going to a digital thermometer readout, but it was useful.

I was wondering: would it be helpful to do the same on a DE1? That would give us true "stop steaming on temperature" as the tablet app could connect to this over bluetooth, and stop steam at the right moment.

There are some serious downsides, though:


  • cleaning up after steaming will be more difficult since the probe will be attached

  • battery life is about 170h, or one week, if left always on.

  • However, I believe it is USB charged, and I'm asking Mingle if it can be left on permanently if attached to a power supply

  • it's likely this will fit on a thermometer clip, if you were willing to put it on a milk jug. But that becomes something else to clean.
Damian's DSV2 and DSN3 skins already feature automatic steam stopping, by calculating the desired temperature difference, and dividing by heat transfer/second, which is constant on the DE1. However, with different heaters coming out, and milk sometimes at different starting temperatures (ie, out of the fridge vs on the countertop, warm vs cold milk pitcher) that approach doesn't work so well in a cafe.

Would love to hear your thoughts...!

-john
 

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#2,709 ·
These are much more elegant ? https://meater.com/

I was thinking that since one of the objections to a sensor is that it's another thing to clean, and since one has to clean a milk jug anyway, why not combine them? Most temp sensors I've seen only have the sensor on the very tip of the spike (and the length is there purely to get it into the heart of the thing to be measured), so why not create a jug that has a small spike sticking up from the centre of the base (but long enough to escape the thermal mass of the jug itself)? The circuitry could be housed in an external false jug bottom.

Or, enclose the whole sensor she-bang in a robust waterproof 'bubble' that has enough ballast to semi-sink and swirl around with the milk.
 
#2,710 ·
-Mac said:
These are much more elegant ? https://meater.com/

I was thinking that since one of the objections to a sensor is that it's another thing to clean, and since one has to clean a milk jug anyway, why not combine them? Most temp sensors I've seen only have the sensor on the very tip of the spike (and the length is there purely to get it into the heart of the thing to be measured), so why not create a jug that has a small spike sticking up from the centre of the base (but long enough to escape the thermal mass of the jug itself)? The circuitry could be housed in an external false jug bottom.

Or, enclose the whole sensor she-bang in a robust waterproof 'bubble' that has enough ballast to semi-sink and swirl around with the milk.
Click to expand...
"Meater" is a cute name, nicely made, looks gorgeous. Just bought one, thanks for the tip.

-Mac said:
These are much more elegant ? https://meater.com/

I was thinking that since one of the objections to a sensor is that it's another thing to clean, and since one has to clean a milk jug anyway, why not combine them? Most temp sensors I've seen only have the sensor on the very tip of the spike (and the length is there purely to get it into the heart of the thing to be measured), so why not create a jug that has a small spike sticking up from the centre of the base (but long enough to escape the thermal mass of the jug itself)? The circuitry could be housed in an external false jug bottom.

Or, enclose the whole sensor she-bang in a robust waterproof 'bubble' that has enough ballast to semi-sink and swirl around with the milk.
Click to expand...
The problem I've seen with that approach is "how to clean it?" and "how to make a plastic false bottom attach reliably to a metal jug? I think it'll be clumsy.

We've thought about using an infrared sensor to sense the metal temperature of the jug, which we can do because our jug is painted matte black. That might be a "clean" way forward.
 
#2,711 ·
-Mac said:
These are much more elegant ? https://meater.com/
Click to expand...
I would agree with contacting MEATER. I backed them on Kickstarter and have since purchased more. In fact, I used it today to cook jerk chicken. Close, but not as accurate as a Thermapen, but we're talking a deg F or less difference with more convenience.

That said, an attached probe would be acceptable and probably optimal as it reduces the probability of intermittent signal loss without having to charge a battery intermittently. That said, not as tech savvy, but functional.
 
#2,712 · (Edited by Moderator)



New Decent Heaters


About 18 months ago, I was contacted by Kawai http://www.ekawai.com/ and told that they are the world's largest thermocoil manufacturer, that they make models for a few big name pro espresso machines, and that they'd like to work with us to design a heater to our needs.

Our Decent Espresso Machines are "heat on demand", or boiler-less. However, our machines aren't "sitting around cool", but instead have 1.2 meters of stainless steel tubing, coiled tightly inside a block of aluminum, sitting at 110ºC (for espresso) and 160º (for steam). That's our stored energy.

We currently have two limits imposed on us, by the fact that our demands are beyond what anyone else is doing. The maximum power heaters we can get are 1350W, with 1.2 meters of coiling. This limits us in two ways:


  1. our maximum flow rate for espresso is 8 ml/s. Pro machines are typically around 10 ml/s to as much as 12 ml/s. This matters mainly for espresso making styles that want to hammer the puck quickly with water.

  2. our steam is about half as powerful as a pro machine, so you need about 40 seconds to steam milk that would take 20 seconds on a La Marzocco Strada.
For the past 14 months, Decent and Kawai engineers have been working on a new design for heaters. The main changes are:


  • 2 meters if stainless steel tubing

  • standard wattage of 1500W, with test models now in our hands, going up to 2200W

  • 30% taller

  • but the overall assembled size stays the same, because we've also designed molded insulation to fit efficiently around the heater

  • each heater used to take us 90 minutes to hand build (top photos). We would build a case, add aerogel insulation, temperature probes and triple thermal safeties (two thermal fuses, one thermostat).

  • Now each heater comes ready-to-use, with easier mounting as well.
We're now testing the 1500W models, as we plan on using them in production for our upcoming v1.3 models. That represents an 18% power boost over our previous heaters.

Through 2020, we'll be testing and refining our control software, with the goal of releasing higher powered steam and faster flow rates, in our 2021 espresso machine models. It's alas not so simple as just increasing the wattage. Heat transfer is a complicated affair.

What's interesting about this progress is that it was impossible to short-circuit this step, and launch 2 years ago with this. A company this size only co-designs products with a company it believes is worthwhile. We first had to prove ourselves.

-john
 

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#2,713 ·
decent_espresso said:
View attachment 33422


New Decent Heaters


About 18 months ago, I was contacted by Kawai http://www.ekawai.com/ and told that they are the world's largest thermocoil manufacturer, that they make models for a few big name pro espresso machines, and that they'd like to work with us to design a heater to our needs.

Our Decent Espresso Machines are "heat on demand", or boiler-less. However, our machines aren't "sitting around cool", but instead have 1.2 meters of stainless steel tubing, coiled tightly inside a block of aluminum, sitting at 110ºC (for espresso) and 160º (for steam). That's our stored energy.

We currently have two limits imposed on us, by the fact that our demands are beyond what anyone else is doing. The maximum power heaters we can get are 1350W, with 1.2 meters of coiling. This limits us in two ways:


  1. our maximum flow rate for espresso is 8 ml/s. Pro machines are typically around 10 ml/s to as much as 12 ml/s. This matters mainly for espresso making styles that want to hammer the puck quickly with water.

  2. our steam is about half as powerful as a pro machine, so you need about 40 seconds to steam milk that would take 20 seconds on a La Marzocco Strada.
For the past 14 months, Decent and Kawai engineers have been working on a new design for heaters. The main changes are:


  • 2 meters if stainless steel tubing

  • standard wattage of 1500W, with test models now in our hands, going up to 2200W

  • 30% taller

  • but the overall assembled size stays the same, because we've also designed molded insulation to fit efficiently around the heater

  • each heater used to take us 90 minutes to hand build (top photos). We would build a case, add aerogel insulation, temperature probes and triple thermal safeties (two thermal fuses, one thermostat).

  • Now each heater comes ready-to-use, with easier mounting as well.
We're now testing the 1500W models, as we plan on using them in production for our upcoming v1.3 models. That represents an 18% power boost over our previous heaters.

Through 2020, we'll be testing and refining our control software, with the goal of releasing higher powered steam and faster flow rates, in our 2021 espresso machine models. It's alas not so simple as just increasing the wattage. Heat transfer is a complicated affair.

What's interesting about this progress is that it was impossible to short-circuit this step, and launch 2 years ago with this. A company this size only co-designs products with a company it believes is worthwhile. We first had to prove ourselves.

-john
Click to expand...
Will this only be available for v1.3? I was looking to purchase a DE1PRO when the new tablets started shipping, but it would suck to miss out on this upgrade. On the other hand, I don't really need the group head controls and would like to save that $300 if I can help it. What's the outlook for people in my shoes, and people who are worried about buying the machines but missing out on awesome upgrades that might land just a few months later?
 
#2,715 · (Edited by Moderator)
avetiso said:
Will this only be available for v1.3? I was looking to purchase a DE1PRO when the new tablets started shipping, but it would suck to miss out on this upgrade. On the other hand, I don't really need the group head controls and would like to save that $300 if I can help it. What's the outlook for people in my shoes, and people who are worried about buying the machines but missing out on awesome upgrades that might land just a few months later?
Click to expand...
The v1.3 machines coming in January will have the new heaters, but we do have v1.1 machines being built now that have a 1500W heaters in them, though they still use the old insulating case. We transitioned about 4 weeks ago. If you want a 1500W v1.1 machine, at the lower price, just let me know before you pay, and I'll make sure that's what you get.

As far as going to 2200W for steam, that'll be for our more expensive models only (DE1XL, and eventually, a DE1CAFE) and will start to appear in July 2020 (in the DE1XL) and 2021 (1st appearance of the DE1CAFE). The "home models" will peak at 1500W.

-john
 
#2,716 · (Edited by Moderator)
Drip tray cover progress

After several attempts at a "lost-wax process" stainless steel drip tray, even with the cross bars, the result is too wonky to be acceptable.

Here's a photo (top) of the final attempt, compared to the current chrome-plated aluminum drip tray cover. Hopefully, you'll agree that our current cover is a lot nicer looking. It's main problems are (a) it's aluminum, and can tarnish and (b) the company that made them for us tried to hold us hostage.

So... we're giving up on "lost wax process" molding for this piece.

I will mention in passing that the supplier has been honorable throughout this time, and promised to refund our money if they couldn't succeed. That's a big loss of money for them, since the molds have been made, used, and aren't useable. We'll definitely do business with them in the future, for parts where lost wax molding is more suited (ie, parts that can be machines afterward, to remove the casting defects).

We decided to reach out to manufacturers of traditional drip tray covers, but to design something that looked less like a BBQ, and closer to our existing design.

We paid for 5 suppliers to send us samples. I've previously posted the *horrible* first sample we received. The rest of the 4 samples have taken more time to arrive, but the workmanship is much improved. All of them are a bit too large, and 2 of have a slight wobble to them. The ones on the bottom line are my favorites.

However, there are two manufacturers who are really close to acceptable, that we're going to follow up on.

I've included one photo below of the new design, on the DE1XL countersink. Except for it being a tad too large for the ceramic underneath it, I think it looks ok.

The price for these is much lower (around $5) and being made of stainless steel, they're very tough. They're heavier, so will cost more to mail to people. But overall, I'm pretty happy with how this is turning out, even if we've been sweating daily since August (!!!) about this part.

Thankfully, so many customers sent in their ugly-but-still-functional spare old drip tray covers in, that we've been able to continue shipping espresso machines, with the promise of a free gift and a much better drip tray soon to arrive.

I'm optimistic for a happy ending to this story.

-john
 

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#2,718 ·
decent_espresso said:
The v1.3 machines coming in January will have the new heaters, but we do have v1.1 machines being built now that have a 1500W heaters in them, though they still use the old insulating case. We transitioned about 4 weeks ago. If you want a 1500W v1.1 machine, at the lower price, just let me know before you pay, and I'll make sure that's what you get

-john
Click to expand...
Does this mean a machine bought within the last week would have the new 1.3 heater or only upon request?
 
#2,719 ·
Wascally314 said:
Do you have any plans to offer the DE1PRO in white? Thank you!
Click to expand...
Sorry, no. Just the DE1XL will be in white.

Firedancer said:
Does this mean a machine bought within the last week would have the new 1.3 heater or only upon request?
Click to expand...
I thought that was the case, but... I just checked with my staff and "boss was out of the loop" ...

It turns out that as of March 2019 (around serial number 420), we transitioned to 1500W heaters. So, the past 550 machines (we just built machine 975) all have 18% more powerful heaters in them, and are just awaiting the new firmware for v1.3 (free to all) that will use the extra heating capacity.

It won't be until about March 2020 that we transition to the new Kawai heaters, which will also be 1500W. The only difference will be for us, namely that they come pre-built, rather than our needing to spend 90 minutes to build a box for each. To users, there's no difference.

-john
 
#2,720 · (Edited by Moderator)


The story behind our digital milk thermometer​

​

We're almost out of stock of our first run of 3000 digital milk thermometers.​

I designed these 3 years ago, with my Portuguese designer Joao Tomaz, based on a meat thermometer https://www.mingle-instrument.de/et578a/ design that German thermometer maker "Mingle", already manufactured. Here's what their meat thermometer looks like:​
​

To morph their thermometer into ours, we:​

- changed the probe length​

- changed the firmware to appropriate temperatures for steaming milk​

- added a silicone sleeve for water-ingress-prevention​

- changed the printing​

​

But otherwise left the rest alone, since it was a well made product already.​

​

I picked Mingle because they made my favorite oven thermometer (for roasting meats), and it was the only one that had survived my use.​

​

However, steam ingress has been a persistent problem for us. Very heavy milk steaming (or washing up in a sink) gets water inside. The thermometer shorts out and doesn't work.​

​

Luckily, the thermometer is not permanently broken when this happens. You have to twist to open it up, and let it dry overnight with the batteries removed, and it comes back to life. Still, that's inconvenient.​

​

Home users rarely have this problem (not enough heavy use) but it's been a problem for us, when our thermometer is used in cafes.​

​

Before re-ordering, I challenged Mingle to try to address this issue.​

​

They suggested that the PCBs be "nano-coated" with a water resistant coating.​

​

Yesterday they delivered 3 samples to us, and I asked my engineer Alex to run them through ever-more-punishing tests.​

​

I didn't expect them to survive the total-immersion test, but they did. I'm pleased. Only $0.80 extra cost to us oer thermometer, and so much more useful.​

​

We'll have these new models in stock, by the end of December.​

​

The milk thermometer page is here: https://decentespresso.com/milk_thermometer - if you want us to hold your order until the new ones come in, please say so in the "Notes" of your order.​

-john​

​
 

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