[decent_espresso]

We're still finalizing the stream heater control algorithm, but it looks like we're able to deliver much better steam power than I had predicted. I had previously said we'd be ~40 to ~50 seconds to steam 200ml of milk. Today, I accomplished this in 34 seconds. This was on our 110V machine.

You can also see how the single hole steam wand tip is performing. I'm finding it fairly easy to control and it's making good quality foam.

 

[MWJB]

I don't know, the only article I've found analyzing Nespresso is this one: http://www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/

If you have some links of others analyzing what's going on inside a Nespresso machine, I would love to read those!

I have also measured EY of a few Nespresso shots, not with the same amount of detail that James Hoffmann did. But notice that in his sieve tests of a Lungo capsule 80% of the ground weight was over 500um, filter coffee territory? The lungo I measured was 6.4g dose into 110g of beverage, or a 17:1 ratio in the cup (would equate to 19:1 as a drip ratio, so a bit lower than typical).

The pods I weighed were in the region of 5.1g dose to 6.4g dose, so even for a Nespresso 'ristretto' shot that's ~4:1 ratio, 6 or 7:1 ratio for Nespresso 'espresso'.

So it strikes me that the high yields are related more to the long brew ratios employed, the fact they still taste good into the mid 20's (I measured a lungo at 29%EY and it was bitter as you'd expect) probably more a function of the grind distribution (I have had sweet tasting mid 20's extractions from commercially ground coffee too).

 

[risky]

flow profiling: there are a handful of hand-modified machines out there using this technology, I don't know any machine shipping with it. In theory, it should do what pressure profiling aims to do, but to do it better, so I expect the in cup result to be better too.

@DavecUK didn't you say that apart from the Vesuvius, all other machines that claim to pressure profile are, in fact, flow profiling?

 

[DavecUK]

@DavecUK didn't you say that apart from the Vesuvius, all other machines that claim to pressure profile are, in fact, flow profiling?

With the exception of the La marzoco Strada EP (but this is at the moment only a 2 group commercial) for prosumer machines, this does still seem to be the case. If you have a standard Vibe pump or a standard Rotary pump, then your flow profiling, because you use valves, bypasses and restriction, rather than truly varying pump pressure. The ideal would be to have both pressure and on the fly flow profiling of course...

Always lots of people ready to expound myths on the internet, like those about the El Roccio Zarre machine, but in hard testing, it failed to deliver against the myths.

 

[scottgough]

Interesting, I might see if Andrew Meo from Rocket would like to respond to this, he's quite into his engineering.

 

[decent_espresso]

A few people private-messaged me, asking to see the quality of the milk foam made on the DE1, so I made this very short movie. This was 200ml of whole milk, lifted to about 275ml of volume, in about 35 seconds.

 

[decent_espresso]

We have the bluetooth module working now, and I've written a not-yet-finished version of the tablet UI (no "settings" section yet, no shot-progress info, but otherwise working), and so we were today able to make unassisted coffee drinks. This also demonstrates our accurate-temperature "hot water" feature, making a 60°C Americano. This is a major milestone for us.

 

[bronc]

What's the purpose of that portafilter-like handle/thing? There is something very unnatural about how it looks.

 

[decent_espresso]

It's going to be moving to the other side of the group head, in about 2 weeks (new group head design coming). The 2nd handle is there because our machine not heavy like a boiler based machine, and so we found it helpful to put a hand on something (with your other hand) as you lock in the portafilter.

Note that if you don't like the idea of that 2nd handle, it's simply screwed in and you can remove it. I've found it really useful for locking the pf in, but it does get in the way of the steam wand where it now is, which I don't like.

 

[bronc]

Sounds useful but the design makes it look a bit awkward. Maybe something less obvious that doesn't look like a second portafilter handle?

 

[decent_espresso]

Sounds useful but the design makes it look a bit awkward. Maybe something less obvious that doesn't look like a second portafilter handle?

In the video you saw, we're using an alternate design for the handle, that we only have one of, and that we're not going to manufacture.

With our current design (the one we're actually building) the 2nd handle is much smaller and shorter than the portafilter.

I agree that I'm concerned about it, it's something we really asked for feedback on at the Portland CoffeeFest trade show where we exhibited. I was really surprised at how, in person, that 2nd handle elicited nothing but shrugs. No-one seemed to be bother-ed.

Take a look at this video to see what a few views of that 2nd handle. But, I am moving it to the left next week, as it is annoying in the way during steaming, at the moment.

 

[risky]

I must admit I thought the handle an odd looking thing, although I can see how it could be useful depending on how tight the portafilter fits into the group head. Maybe a smaller one reminiscent of the paddle would look better.

As a lefty, the existing placement is good, which made me wonder how awkward it must be on any machine to lock in a portafilter with your right hand.

 

[h1udd]

As a micro casa elekra owner, the PF locks in that way .... It's mildly awkward for a right hander BUT not because it's difficult, just unnatural feeling as you are used to doing it the other way all the time. It dies keep it out the way of the steam wand though and still leaves it at a decent enough angle to provide leverage when pulling the lever.

in your case couldn't you use a thicker gasket z d have it line up dead centre ?

 

[decent_espresso]

As it happens, we're currently playing with different gaskets, as the one in there now is waaaay too stiff. The pf locking where it does is that people can use other pf brands and they'll work. We found some pfs lock around "5pm" so we ended up making our lock around "7pm" as a compromise.

As to the 2nd handle, we'll see if it's needed in many cases. We're using rubber suction cup feet, so that if you put the DE1 on tile or any other watertight surface, it stays put despite not being heavy.

As I mentioned above, if you don't like the 2nd handle, it screws out.

 

[malling]

You're absolutely right, we'd have to charge at least twice that if we were working through resellers and distributors, as each typically takes a 30% to 50% margin.

I really hate the idea of making a machine for £150, selling it to a distributor for £250 and the eventual customer paying £899 for it. There's no way to make a decent machine for that little money.

That's why we're only selling direct to consumer. That lets us spend £500 to make your machine, sell it to you for £999, and we make enough profit to both make something of quality, and support you in the case where you have any problems.

Being a company in US, there is one thing that will hit European hard financially and that is VAT and import duties.

If your machine is indeed sold at £999, the price for many Europeans will however be more like £1250-1300

 

[Dylan]

I have a Cafelat gasket in my machine at the moment, and whilst its a big heavy VBM I barely lock the PF in and I never get any spurts. I think the design of the lugs and material of the gasket can mean even the lightest machine doesn't need to move when locking int he PF.

Perhaps design a simple way to unscrew the handle and maybe a nice looking decorative cap to go where the screw hole is if you dont use it?

 

[decent_espresso]

I have a Cafelat gasket in my machine at the moment, and whilst its a big heavy VBM I barely lock the PF in and I never get any spurts. I think the design of the lugs and material of the gasket can mean even the lightest machine doesn't need to move when locking in the PF.

I'm friends with Paul @ Cafelat and have one of his gaskets here. If you prefer it, you can absolutely use it on our espresso machine.

Perhaps design a simple way to unscrew the handle and maybe a nice looking decorative cap to go where the screw hole is if you dont use it?

Because we have a "cover" on the group head, you can't actually see the hole if you remove the handle, unless you bend way down and look for it.

Being a company in US, there is one thing that will hit European hard financially and that is VAT and import duties. If your machine is indeed sold at £999, the price for many Europeans will however be more like £1250-1300

We're shipping out of Hong Kong, where we're building the machines (that's where I am too), but yes, the VAT/duty issue when sending products into the EU is unavoidable.

 

[Dylan]

I'm friends with Paul @ Cafelat and have one of his gaskets here. If you prefer it, you can absolutely use it on our espresso machine.

---

Because we have a "cover" on the group head, you can't actually see the hole if you remove the handle, unless you bend way down and look for it.

Good stuff, it seems like its a good option to have in any case so if it's removable and doesn't adversely affect the design then its just an added bonus.

 

[decent_espresso]

Some people have expressed the sentiment that they really don't want to have to use a tablet to make an espresso, and for them that is a major hurdle to them using the espresso machine we're designing.

So, I made a video to show how (not) difficult it is. The goal was to not make day-to-day espresso making any more difficult than a simpler (non tablet) machine. The main benefit of the tablet is that you can go into the "settings" page and change temperature, pressure profile, volumetric dosing, gravimetric dosing (if you have our bluetooth scale) and more.

This video is showing an early version of the user interface: I'll be adding (I'm the programmer) a real time display of water temperature, pressure, and flow, as well as a shot timer.

 

[h1udd]

Can you show us s vid where you start the pour, then the tablet decides to freeze and you need to hard reset it before the app responds again giving you 1ltr of espresso in that cup

Or the one where you hit stop ... Nothing happens .... Hit stop agsin nothing happens .... Hit it 3 more times .... Then it catches up and stops the shot, starts it, stops it, starts it and stops it.

it does look ace ... And it does look easy to use, but I get these issues using the Sonos app on a notable basis ... A tad annoying but livable ... On an espresso machine, i would insist on a wired button to turn the shot off .... Or at least have the power button on the front