[29244]

@tompoland Perhaps we have different rules over here matey, but I have never seen a warranty in the UK, effectively restart with a repair within the period. The warranty states X months from the date of purchase. Quite often you find someone buys an item and does not use it for several months but the warranty starts at date of purchase, not date of first

Indeed. Perhaps my wording was clumsy but I was not inferring that a warranty restarted with a repair, rather quite the opposite.

 

[DavecUK]

I've had to go through and edit quite a few posts in this thread. If you want to use a word processor or external editor to make the text

Super large

then write your entire post in it... really doesn't help make the post readable, just irritating.

Any more posts entirely in super large text, will be removed, because I can't be bothered to remove all the formatting and then re-italicize and re-bold the appropriate portions of the text again.

 

[Man_Cave]

I've had to go through and edit quite a few posts in this thread. If you want to use a word processor or external editor to make the text

Super large

then write your entire post in it... really doesn't help make the post readable, just irritating.

Any more posts entirely in super large text, will be removed, because I can't be bothered to remove all the formatting and then re-italicize and re-bold the appropriate portions of the text again.

I used my ipad notepad to write the very long posts and then, I could not find how to reduce the font size when I copied it here.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

@DavecUK - Dave, on the super large text (my post was also edited - thanks for that).

Now, the reason was I copy/pasted from the sources I quoted. On their website, the text is formatted like that.

The button "Remove Format" (pointed by the arrow) does not work in my case. It leaves some of the formatting behind.

So, how did you fix the formatting? Is there a way?

The only way I can think is to put that into a plain text editor and paste back here. But that's just too much work sometimes.

 

[DavecUK]

@MediumRoastSteam You have to select all the text then use the Tx button, trouble is it removes all formatting, so you then have to remember what you had and redo it. If you are selecting the text and it doesn't work, I have no idea why what would be?

 

[Man_Cave]

I am sure that this point is not related, but you buy your beans from Hoffman, who also by chance, used to recommend the use of WDT to help with static. I am not aware of any manufacturer who recommends this as quite simply, metal plus water equals trouble. You say you have never added water.....fine.......but I still think water is the issue, whether added intentionally by you or not. You are up a creek here matey. If you admit to WDT then Niche would drop you like a stone as it directly goes against the advice in the manual or pamphlet. So instead, you go onto social media and this forum, blaming anyone and everyone......as a business man of more years than I care to remember, if you had come to me quietly with this issue I would have resolved it, and probably absorbed the cost as a manufacturer, I might have learnt something. Unlike Niche, if you had come to me in an aggressive way after having posted the problem all over, I would have refused to help you. Different ships, different captains I suppose.

In find you quite insulting you doubt my honesty and you will be making it to my blocked list very fast indeed if you don't retract you post.

How very dare you.

Moods:

This man is calling me a liar without a shadow of proof.

isn't that against the rules?

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

@DavecUK - I'll try to reproduce what I did later on, will try to video it and will contact you via PM. Thanks! 👍

 

[Rob1]

When a company has delivered thousands of grinders and never had this issue reported before they're not going to be particularly likely to take your word for it that you didn't use RDT and didn't have the grinder positioned in a place where it might come into contact with excessive moisture (e.g. it's in the kitchen, you put a steaming bowl of whatever down in front of it and the moisture goes up the spout and is absorbed by trapped coffee). I use the last example because I find myself almost doing it all the time just because of the layout of the kitchen. It's natural for the company to be sceptical about your claims given the rust present and natural for them to investigate it further. I'd expect them to refund you if they find anything wrong, if not good luck proving a manufacturing defect yourself.

Likewise, the niche had only 10Kg of coffee through it and should not have needed cleaning other than when I attempted it. Much less, suffer the devastating failure it has.

Like I said in my post, if I had used it to grind 5 coffees a day the fault would have shown it's ugly face well inside the warranty period or recommended cleaning timeframe.

But, it seems people here gets stuck (yes I use the word intentionally) in the 17 months time frame and, not the actual amount of coffee this unit has had through it which, is insignificant in the larger picture.

I have talked to people that has not cleaned their niche for two years and, have put a hell of a lot more coffee through it than I have, upon telling them about this, they rushed to do so, only to find little to clean there and no damage.

That's why I believe this unit was defective from either faulty parts or assembly error. It does happen, much as some people like to believe that manufacturing processes are perfect.

How have you come to the conclusion that the grinder needs to be cleaned based on how much coffee has been put through it rather than how long it has been used....obviously the grinder needs to have had SOME coffee put through it but after that, when the gaps have been filled (which happens very quickly) what makes you think it's a quantity and not a time issue? Corrosion happens over time, not because of quantities.

I think the problem here is likely to be use case. You haven't changed your grind setting. Changing grind setting coarse and finer will stop coffee getting trapped and help remove moisture build up within the coffee (it gets hot in there). The two other people you found who haven't cleaned their Niche in two years may well have been adjusting the grinder fairly regularly and thus the coffee would not be so compacted around the burrs.......this is actually a design fault. Depending on how often Niche recommend cleaning the burrs (not based on quantity) you may be able to claim the grinder is not fit for purpose based on the design, if this is the issue. I'm guessing it's extremely unusual for somebody not to change the grind setting (even using the same coffee) and this might not be something that was tested, especially over such a long period of time without cleaning. How often they recommend cleaning the grinder would be crucial (a period of time or throughput).

I was shocked by Jame's response to my request to inspect the parts which, I found quite arrogant and condescending. But now, all of the sudden, when I ask for my parts back, they need to inspect them and, kept them without asking me if they could do so while ignoring my request to send them back. Yet more questionable behaviour.

As for those questioning ownership of the old parts. Please do excuse me but, I paid £500 for my unit plus another £200 to get it repaired. Whatever was in my unit belongs to me, that should be quite obvious to anyone that takes the time to think carefully.

I don't know what you're referring to in the first part. Unfortunately, the law isn't something you can decide by simply thinking carefully. I have no legal knowledge and haven't consulted a solicitor, have you? If not, perhaps you should since you seem to be intending to go down that route. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a law allowing manufacturers to retain parts of faulty products for inspection so long as replacements are provided (whether you paid for them or not or paid a 'service fee'). They will probably have to return them to you if you request them in due time. I agree in principal the parts belong to you and you should have access to them should you want to fund your own independent investigation, and if they don't have to return the parts to you legally they probably will have to turn them over for independent study in any legal proceedings you bring. Why are you so reluctant to allow Niche to inspect the parts and report back to you their findings? They might refund you yet. Is this not a discussion you've had with them?

 

[newdent]

That's a fair point @Rob1 I never thought of that. You'd think most niche owners would be the type of users that are constantly changing the grind to suit a different bean / brew method and this would keep the top burr mobile. I switch between 2 different beans every day and occasionally adjust massively for filter. I assume this type of thing is common. Actually, it's probably one of the main reasons people buy the niche in the first place.

 

[Man_Cave]

When a company has delivered thousands of grinders and never had this issue reported before they're not going to be particularly likely to take your word for it that you didn't use RDT and didn't have the grinder positioned in a place where it might come into contact with excessive moisture (e.g. it's in the kitchen, you put a steaming bowl of whatever down in front of it and the moisture goes up the spout and is absorbed by trapped coffee). I use the last example because I find myself almost doing it all the time just because of the layout of the kitchen. It's natural for the company to be sceptical about your claims given the rust present and natural for them to investigate it further. I'd expect them to refund you if they find anything wrong, if not good luck proving a manufacturing defect yourself.

How have you come to the conclusion that the grinder needs to be cleaned based on how much coffee has been put through it rather than how long it has been used....obviously the grinder needs to have had SOME coffee put through it but after that, when the gaps have been filled (which happens very quickly) what makes you think it's a quantity and not a time issue? Corrosion happens over time, not because of quantities.

I think the problem here is likely to be use case. You haven't changed your grind setting. Changing grind setting coarse and finer will stop coffee getting trapped and help remove moisture build up within the coffee (it gets hot in there). The two other people you found who haven't cleaned their Niche in two years may well have been adjusting the grinder fairly regularly and thus the coffee would not be so compacted around the burrs.......this is actually a design fault. Depending on how often Niche recommend cleaning the burrs (not based on quantity) you may be able to claim the grinder is not fit for purpose based on the design, if this is the issue. I'm guessing it's extremely unusual for somebody not to change the grind setting (even using the same coffee) and this might not be something that was tested, especially over such a long period of time without cleaning. How often they recommend cleaning the grinder would be crucial (a period of time or throughput).

I don't know what you're referring to in the first part. Unfortunately, the law isn't something you can decide by simply thinking carefully. I have no legal knowledge and haven't consulted a solicitor, have you? If not, perhaps you should since you seem to be intending to go down that route. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a law allowing manufacturers to retain parts of faulty products for inspection so long as replacements are provided (whether you paid for them or not or paid a 'service fee'). They will probably have to return them to you if you request them in due time. I agree in principal the parts belong to you and you should have access to them should you want to fund your own independent investigation, and if they don't have to return the parts to you legally they probably will have to turn them over for independent study in any legal proceedings you bring. Why are you so reluctant to allow Niche to inspect the parts and report back to you their findings? They might refund you yet. Is this not a discussion you've had with them?

I am not going to answer everything you have raised here as I have provided information that covers most of it.

I hinted and gave James and Sam every opportunity to come forwards with an offer of good will in fact, when discussing the old parts, I actually said to Sam that had they had done the repair on good will, I would not have minded for them to keep and inspect them. But and since the repairs have come at a high cost and james replay to my deep inspection request, I was (and am) not confortable with them keeping them. Sadly No offer of good will has come forwards.

Shocked by the damage, I clearly instructed James to inspect the parts carefully for any signs of manufacturing defects. I have posted his answer in a previous post

Yes, I have issues with them keeping the parts because I specifically asked for them and, They only decided to "study" the parts after informing them of my intention to send them to a metallurgist. Why was this study not conducted when I asked James to look for defects and before deciding to charge me?

Another thing that has come to light. At around 2pm yesterday, I was informed by Sam that the grinder had been posted. I received a ping today from DPD saying they have just got it. If it was posted today and not yesterday, the parts may be included. I was under the impression the package had already left and was told by Sam the parts will not arrive with the unit. But, in view of the new information, I shall update accordingly.

The units are made in China and, manufacturing process are not free from errors. I did not abuse the product and, if missing 3 maintenance windows because of low usage, has resulted in catastrophic failure then I am of the opinion the unit was defective from factory

I understand they may privately question my honesty when I say I have not used water but, that's the truth and by the same hand, and knowing what usage and treatment the unit has had, I am entirely entitled to question their assessment.

And I am really done discussing this. it has taken enough of my time.

Have a great weekend.

 

[29244]

I have found the same, the warranty does not restart with a replacement.

That is exactly what I said.

 

[Del]

Like I said in my post, if I had used it to grind 5 coffees a day the fault would have shown it's ugly face well inside the warranty period or recommended cleaning timeframe.

Doesn't oxidation occur over time? I'd argue that if more beans were put through it it'd be less likely to corrode as the beans would be exfoliating the burrs more regularly?

I did not abuse the product and, if missing 3 maintenance windows because of low usage, has resulted in catastrophic failure then I am of the opinion the unit was defective from factory

In electrical testing, there are 3 categories of fault, C3, C2 and C1, meaning minor problem, serious problem and "someone may die" problem. Very rarely do these get better over time, only ever worse, lack of use as a defence just isn't a defence.

Personally, if I forgot/neglected to do something important 3 times, I'd hold my hands up and admit fault if it all went wrong. Yes a coffee grinder is designed to grind coffee, but a frying pan is designed to fry stuff and even a stainless steel one will look a mess if you can't look after it as the manufacturer recommends/common sense dictates.

 

[Man_Cave]

Doesn't oxidation occur over time? I'd argue that if more beans were put through it it'd be less likely to corrode as the beans would be exfoliating the burrs more regularly?

In electrical testing, there are 3 categories of fault, C3, C2 and C1, meaning minor problem, serious problem and "someone may die" problem. Very rarely do these get better over time, only ever worse, lack of use as a defence just isn't a defence.

Personally, if I forgot/neglected to do something important 3 times, I'd hold my hands up and admit fault if it all went wrong. Yes a coffee grinder is designed to grind coffee, but a frying pan is designed to fry stuff and even a stainless steel one will look a mess if you can't look after it as the manufacturer recommends/common sense dictates.

Firstly and if you had bothered to read everything, you would have realised that I have not dodged my part in this, I have admitted to not cleaning the unit.

You would have also read that the grinder was in use every day for a single dose of 18g .So going by your reasoning, the burrs were re seasoned every day with rare exceptions.

For damage of this calibre to occur in just 17 moths, and with only 10Kg through it, a defect of some description has to be at play here. As I have stated several times, other users have not cleaned their Niche for over two year with no issues.

My Mercedes Benz oxygen sensors which, are rated for 100K miles, failed while the car had only 28K on the clock but, with the car already 2 years out of warranty. Mercedes service fixed the issue under good faith without me needing to ask.

My Niche failed way before it should have alas, not such costumer service form Niche.

The fixed grinder arrives latter this evening. My faith in the brand has been completely destroyed and is un repairable. I won't be bothering with a metallurgist and the unit will be put up for sale immediately so that I can buy something more reliable from a reputable brand.

The old parts will be framed to remind me not to back small outfits again.

Now, this has not been a good experience for me so, if we could all stop beating a dead horse, it would be great. thanks.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

My Niche failed way before it should have alas, not such costumer service form Niche.

Niche has effectively charged you for brand new Mazzer Kony burrs. They replaced a lot more than they needed to replace from a product totally out of warranty, neglected for 17 months, where you went totally against the advice provided in the manual/user guide. (I.e.: deep clean after 3-6 months depending on usage).There are over 30k other units not having the same issue. It's always easy to blame the machine for sure, but you have gone against the advice here. You have to look at yourself and take the blame. Let's face it, Niche could have done nothing. But they did, and not only that - they did a lot more than what was required for no extra cost. In my book, that's called excellent customer service.

With all due respect, you need to stop beating the dead horse and accept you could have ended up with a far more expensive bill.

Let us know what's the next grinder manufacturer you choose. Do the same, keep in the exact same spot, treat it in the same way, and let us know what happens after 17 months of no adjustments or any cleaning. Would also know what your experience with the reseller/manufacturer will be.

Best of luck, over and out.

 

[Jollybean]

I am not convinced that lack of cleaning the Niche is solely responsible for the problems found. I was a very early purchaser and for my sins have never opened up the grinder to clean it. This was on the basis that i understood the Niche had a very low volume of retained and exchanged grounds.

Prompted by this thread I did yesterday and fortunately for me no problems were discovered. The burrs were easy to remove, the base of the chamber remains in perfect order and the total volume of retained coffee removed by cleaning was 2.5g.

Something has caused the problems which were encountered in this thread, however I suspect it is not solely lack of cleaning unless i have just been very lucky and had a narrow escape.

I have no idea what else may have caused this but further investigation to pin it down, may allow further advice to be provided to prevent a recurrence for other users. It is accepted that currently the issue seems a very rare problem, given the number of units sold and reported cases so maybe Niche consider this too infrequent an issue to merit further investigation with potentially too many variables beyond their control to allow the root cause to be identified.

I do regularly change the grind settings for both espresso and pour over so as noted by @Rob1previously maybe this could be a factor. If so Niche could potentially consider amending their maintenance advice to include the need to periodically run the grinder on fine and coarse settings to prevent build up in the grind chamber.

I hope the OP finds a good alternative grinder and a pity that this issue has ruined their confidence in Niche, as my experience with the grinder has been excellent to date.

 

[Jollybean]

Thinking this through further I realise that if the existing maintenance advice is followed that would also remove the build up so no further clarification required! My only excuse is it is late and I had not quite thought the logic through! 🙄

 

[DavecUK]

@Jollybean

the base of the chamber remains in perfect order

It would, the photos you saw were from Niche, and they dug out the floor of the grind chamber while investigating.

It is accepted that currently the issue seems a very rare problem, given the number of units sold and reported cases

Are there any other cases like this?

 

[urbanbumpkin]

For anyone else that had a similar problem with not being able to remove the black plastic ring. I had the same problem with it being stuck (i'd previously been able to remove it without issue). I reassembled the grinder and tightened the nut using a finger to stop the burrs from turning. When I later undid the nut the black ring just came off with it, no sign of corrosion. I have no idea what caused it to stick... but this worked for me.

Edit 15/08/23. Just for clarity this is the black plastic ring I'm referring to with the slotted pin in (see below). that sits on top of the lower burr. Man_Cave's issue seemed to be with the upper burr being stuck