[andysk]

This one is a bit clearer:

 

[Waitforme]

What is the theory behind the pre-infusion, what is it supposed to achieve?

 

[DavecUK]

What is the theory behind the pre-infusion, what is it supposed to achieve?

That's a big subject, the thinking is broadly..

• 
  Gradual preinfusion saturates the puck allowing a finer grind to be used, whereas a quick rise to full pressure for the same grind would choke the machine
  
• 
  Saturating the puck allows changes the extraction phase, allowing more flavour out of the coffee
  
• 
  It should prevent the puck from fracturing so easily.
  

All to get a better extraction with more flavour...

 

[Waitforme]

Thanks Dave

Is it likely to damage the machine using it with the flaw or is it just a case of it's not actually going to enhance the coffee shot ?

The Victoria would appear to tick all of the boxes for me but if there's a design flaw then I would cross it off my list of potential machines.

 

[DavecUK]

Thanks Dave

Is it likely to damage the machine using it with the flaw or is it just a case of it's not actually going to enhance the coffee shot ?

The Victoria would appear to tick all of the boxes for me but if there's a design flaw then I would cross it off my list of potential machines.

1. 
   If you can turn preinfusion off, then use it like that.
   
2. 
   If you can't turn preinfusion off, then reconsider whether to buy it or not. Perhaps get one of the other machines I actually tested e.g. MaraX or Elizabeth, you won't be disappointed
   

In the case of 1. I will, when I finally meet up with Lelit mention the preinfusion issue and ask them to change the software to act like the Elizabeth perinfusion (obviously with no steam preinfusion option)....this means if it has an LCC then it can be reflashed or a replacement LCC purchase with updated firmware.

I don't want to get too involved with it all because it's not a machine I am particularly interested in testing, I have little enough time to do the more interesting machines. If I start asking about it, suddenly a package will be winging it's way to me and I really don't want that. I already have a package with updated MaraX stuff to fit to my MaraX and test.

 

[Waitforme]

Thanks once again Dave.

I'll do a bit of further research.

The Elizabeth does look nice though .......

 

[Waitforme]

Looks like the pre infusion can be turned off within the LCC programmer.

Why it's not programmed similarly to the Elizabeth which appears to work differently is anyone's guess.

I suppose if I go down the route of the Victoria then I can try with it on and off.

 

[DavecUK]

Thanks once again Dave.

I'll do a bit of further research.

The Elizabeth does look nice though .......

Personally I would think hard about stretching to the Elizabeth (or similar priced dual boiler), you are going to have the machine a long, long time...After many years that extra money won't seem too bad an investment.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Looks like the pre infusion can be turned off within the LCC programmer.

Why it's not programmed similarly to the Elizabeth which appears to work differently is anyone's guess.

I suppose if I go down the route of the Victoria then I can try with it on and off.

Sorry I've lost track. But do you drink solely espresso or also have milk based drinks? Cappuccino, flat white, latte, cortado, macchiato, hot chocolate, etc. If you don't enjoy milk drink or don't have one at least once a day... then the Elizabeth is overkill. You are better off with a Bezzera Unica from @BlackCatCoffee. Now, if you do enjoy milk drinks, man... Lizzy can make your dreams come true. 😂😂😂😂😂

 

[Waitforme]

Thanks guys.

I mainly drink espresso / americano but my wife drinks cappuccinos ( usually from a Nespresso set up).

I'm currently working my way through the Lizzy thread and have dropped Lamamacchinadelcaffe an email re when they will get them in stock again.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Thanks guys.

I mainly drink espresso / americano but my wife drinks cappuccinos ( usually from a Nespresso set up).

I'm currently working my way through the Lizzy thread and have dropped Lamamacchinadelcaffe an email re when they will get them in stock again.

At this point, I'd forget a SBDU (Single boiler dual use) machine like the Victoria. You are better off with a dual boiler machine or MaraX (Clever HX machine).

 

[gichka]

@MediumRoastSteam, why would one got for HX or DB for only one espresso and one milk drink?

Do you think Victoria is not capable of two espressos and steam for the milk? Guess I am missing something, I am new in the coffee world.

I don't mean to argue, just really curious why Victoria seems to get that many negative reviews?

I am asking as my wife and I are having the same morning routine - espresso and cappuccino. Unfortunately I have already ordered the Victoria as the price was reasonable - just 600EUR. My first semi-auto machine and didn't really want to go above that budget. I also didn't want to complicate things for my wife, so with LCC - Victoria seemed easier to work with.

I really wanted MaraX , but it was + 400EUR ( 70% more), but now I am starting to think it was a mistake not getting the latter E61. Actually it is worth mentioning those 400EUR saved from MaraX were spent for Niche Zero Was it a mistake?

And still, is the Victoria really that bad?

Thanks!

 

[DavecUK]

@gichkaIt sounds as if the Victoria is fine for you and what you need the machine for. Using the savings to get a good grinder was a smart move.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

@gichka - never seen the Victoria. I'm sure it's a good machine.

personally, after using a Gaggia Classic for 3 years or so, moving to an HX and then dual boiler system, was an eye opener, even though I only steam milk for myself in the morning as my first coffee.

The routine is just so much simpler without having to wait to steam milk. I found that the quality of the steam is not as wet, and is much stronger, which helps quite a bit. That seemed true for the machines I seen and used: Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia and Bezzera Unica (the last one just really briefly at Bella Barista).

overall, if budget is a constraint, you did the right thing: the grinder is very important, and the Niche is a great choice.

 

[L2en]

@gichka I originally wanted to buy Victoria, ended up with Elizabeth just because I was able to get it under £1000, which was my upper limit, being the only coffee drinker in the house I just decided I could not justify spending more. I'm superhappy with my decision coming from Silvia, even though I have just one milk drink a day. I'm sure if I didn't have comparison I would be just as happy with Victoria as I didn't find the steaming problematic with the Silvia (lots of dry powerful steam 1 minute after switching the button), the reason for change was the temperature control, which is perfectly fine with Victoria. In my case, changing grinder made the biggest difference in coffee quality, so I think you have done the right thing with a set budget. I'm sure you can upgrade later, Victoria is surely great first machine.

 

[gichka]

Thanks, guys!

I have been following the forum as a guest, but I am really happy with the answers and reactions to my first post. Amazing community! Would definitely try to be active and share results.

I received the Victoria - it's a beast compared to the Nespresso we have. Happy with my purchase.
However as I am scheduled for Feb '21 delivery Niche Zero, the machine would rather sit still, not being used.

I got some freshly roasted coffee, and asked to be ground in the shop on four different steps. Tried each one of them, but the coffee is underextracted - flows way too fast and is quite sour. Another thing I tried was filling more coffee in the double basket , that improved the taste a bit, but definitely not what I would expect, still sour.

Not sure what the coffee shop grinder was, it was definitely a commercial one. I got it ground on step 2.0 as lowest, but the current way it flows it seems like I need to go at 0.1 to get s.th good, which is odd

Any ideas for workaround not having a grinder by my side or rather stop wasting coffee and wait a bit more for the Niche? Probably it's a bit of hit and miss with preground, even if it is freshly roasted and I guess it would never work?

I am using stock double basket, it says 14grams , but how much do you guys usually use ? I tried with 14 to 19 grams. Probably Elizabeth owners would know what would be the standard for double, should I follow what the manual says - 14gr?

 

[DavecUK]

Thanks, guys!

I have been following the forum as a guest, but I am really happy with the answers and reactions to my first post. Amazing community! Would definitely try to be active and share results.

I received the Victoria - it's a beast compared to the Nespresso we have. Happy with my purchase.
However as I am scheduled for Feb '21 delivery Niche Zero, the machine would rather sit still, not being used.

It's a long wait I know, but it's really difficult with preground coffee. Even if you do eventually get a grind that works on day one, it will probably start running fast by days 2-4 and gushing on day 4 with quite a degraded taste.

 

[Barbu]

@MediumRoastSteam, why would one got for HX or DB for only one espresso and one milk drink?

Do you think Victoria is not capable of two espressos and steam for the milk? Guess I am missing something, I am new in the coffee world.

I don't mean to argue, just really curious why Victoria seems to get that many negative reviews?

I am asking as my wife and I are having the same morning routine - espresso and cappuccino. Unfortunately I have already ordered the Victoria as the price was reasonable - just 600EUR. My first semi-auto machine and didn't really want to go above that budget. I also didn't want to complicate things for my wife, so with LCC - Victoria seemed easier to work with.

I really wanted MaraX , but it was + 400EUR ( 70% more), but now I am starting to think it was a mistake not getting the latter E61. Actually it is worth mentioning those 400EUR saved from MaraX were spent for Niche Zero Was it a mistake?

And still, is the Victoria really that bad?

Thanks!

Hello gichka, I'm new here too and l opted for the Victoria since i don't use milk at all, but i must say you got a better price. 😲 I paid over 800EUR for mine. I've only had it for 2 days so still working out how to use this machine as best as possible. Hope the Victoria meets your expectations with the grinder!

 

[scmdg]

Where did you guys bought the Victoria?

Tried looking online and there is coffeeitalia coming at £699 but I have read of loooong delivery times and issues with warranty and refunds when there is a problem with the delivery/machine so I am not ordering from them.

The other one is Espresso friend whi 2-3 weeks and its more expensive and more important, could not find reviews about being a reputable seller or not.

Otherwise, unable to find it in stock. I am close to switching to Grace or something just because Bella has it in stock plus other sellers.

Thanks

 

[Rincewind]

..there is coffeeitalia....I am not ordering from them.

Excellent, i see that you've done your homework.

The other one is Espresso friend whi 2-3 weeks and its more expensive and more important, could not find reviews about being a reputable seller or not.

if i'm not mistaken then these are Coffee Friend aka The Coffee Mate aka (slipped my mind)....these Polish box shifters are constantly changing "their name"...3 times in less than a year iirc...it appears as soon as they start getting bad reviews on TrusPilot then it's changey-name-time. They keep the exact same "logo" though and site layout etc. If this is the same people then i suggest you avoid them at all costs. click to read what i said (8th one down)

I'm surprised that BB don't sell the Victoria....it's a Lelit after all.