[Blue_Cafe]

At a guess:

Using the expansion valve to dump pre-infusion pressure (to enable a pause in the pressure/flow) in this manner is unavoidable if you don't want backflow into the boiler no?

And it's done this way (simple pump on/off) because it's cost saving without the controller & PCB and/or the pump is happy being variable?

Or in short: it's a fudge.

Its not pre-infusion, it's stepped brewing.

Can I claim my £10?

 

[AJP80]

Is the pump on long enough during preinfusion to put the cake under pressure, so that a sudden opening of the 3-way would destroy it? Or is it on long enough only to pre-wet the cake? I know the pressure gauge shows pressure, but presumably that is not pressure at the puck, is it?

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

At a guess:

Using the expansion valve to dump pre-infusion pressure (to enable a pause in the pressure/flow) in this manner is unavoidable if you don't want backflow into the boiler no?

And it's done this way (simple pump on/off) because it's cost saving without the controller & PCB and/or the pump is happy being variable?

Or in short: it's a fudge.

Its not pre-infusion, it's stepped brewing.

Can I claim my £10?

Let me tell you one more time:

- There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
- Expansion valve is not the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure.
- You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.

Please, please stop writing nonsense.

 

[Blue_Cafe]

Is the pump on long enough during preinfusion to put the cake under pressure, so that a sudden opening of the 3-way would destroy it? Or is it on long enough only to pre-wet the cake? I know the pressure gauge shows pressure, but presumably that is not pressure at the puck, is it?

Correct, mostly I think.

I think the idea is possibly The pump turns on long enough to just fill the void spaces. Once those voids fill up, pressure is generated against the surface of the puck. However, that water has to get through the puck for any depressurisation to be an issue. Perhaps the delta in time isn't actually enough to generate pressure in the puck itself and thus the infusion works of sorts.

I'm sure it does work else it wouldn't be a feature huh.

It might suit a firmer puck mind.

 

[Blue_Cafe]

Let me tell you one more time:

- There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
- Expansion valve is not the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure.
- You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.

Please, please stop writing nonsense.

I suggest you read my post again and then read your own post again.

I'm not going to tell you where you are completely wrong btw, because it takes a small bit of understanding about fluid mechanics, process engineering and mechanical theory to do so and my previous attempts to help you understand same have been fruitless.

But please, if you feel the need to shout again, go and give your beans a rattle for a minute and calm down :good:

 

[DavecUK]

Let me tell you one more time:

- There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
- Expansion valve is not the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure.
- You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.

Please, please stop writing nonsense.

Alberto, I'd just leave it, let him have his say...after all he won't be in Milan with Lelit. I will sort it out with them when I'm there. There will either be a reason, or it might be fixable...at least I can get detail on the programming and schematic from those who designed it.

 

[gyurmaember]

Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.

Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.

Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!

No fake crema unless you are using maybe a pod basket?
you say it's not pressurising the puck. What do you mean?
which grinder do you have? Any chance of a photo of the basket and a video? Thanks!

 

[Blue_Cafe]

Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.

Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!

Fake crema is a myth.

And what would that have to do with pre infusion and pressure?

Can you be more descriptive?

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Fake crema is a myth.

And what would that have to do with pre infusion and pressure?

Can you be more descriptive?

People often refer to "fake crema" what comes out as a product of pressurised baskets. It's anything but crema, it just looks like it.

 

[Blue_Cafe]

People often refer to "fake crema" what comes out as a product of pressurised baskets. It's anything but crema, it just looks like it.

Nope.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Nope.

🤷‍♂️

 

[gyurmaember]

So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.

The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.

 

[gyurmaember]

No fake crema unless you are using maybe a pod basket?
you say it's not pressurising the puck. What do you mean?
which grinder do you have? Any chance of a photo of the basket and a video? Thanks!

I meant the pressure gauge doesn't move in the pre infusion stage on my machine.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

I meant the pressure gauge doesn't move in the pre infusion stage on my machine.

Now, that's weird. How long does the pump run for? Do you see coffee coming out of the spout during that stage? If the gauge doesn't move, then there's no pressure.
ps: hence why I mentioned a video. 😉

 

[Blue_Cafe]

So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.

The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.

Are you using exactly the same techniques, dosing, tamping with both? (In other words, are you applying much more care and precision with the bottomless?)

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.

The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.

How much are you dosing into the basket? Usually 18g (as a rule of thumb). What's your output? Usually we aim for a 1->2 ratio, meaning, for each gram of coffee, you aim to yield 2g of liquid. 18g -> 36g, in around 30 seconds. Those are guidelines only.

It might be that the basket which came with your Naked PF is a bigger basket which could hold easily 22g of coffee. Do check that. The PF itself should not make any difference in terms of what's in the cup to to the extend you are experiencing.

simple thing to do: put the basket which produces better coffee into your naked portafilter.

 

[andysk]

Hey guys, I'm new here (and overall to manual coffee world in general).

Was about to pull the plug on Victoria and I came across this thread.

How disturbing it is for this preinfusion "issue" mentioned in this thread to its internal part? Does it make it less reliable in doing so?

I watched an Elizabeth doing similar thing on one of the video below

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

4 hours ago, andysk said:

Hey guys, I'm new here (and overall to manual coffee world in general).

Was about to pull the plug on Victoria and I came across this thread.

How disturbing it is for this preinfusion "issue" mentioned in this thread to its internal part? Does it make it less reliable in doing so?

I watched an Elizabeth doing similar thing on one of the video below

 

[andysk]

Could that just be a bad dosing/tamping?

Couldn't see it here: (start from 1:55)