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I'm grinding to get a 2:1 shot in around 30 seconds, I'll take a video tomorrow, baby is sleeping now!

To get more than 10 bar PI needs to be set to at least 2.5bar.
How does the 30 sec shot taste? If you are pleased with the result - don't worry what spring lever max pressure is. 10+ bar pressure isn't the holy grail. If you grind finer than your current setting, you will extend shot length which will tone down acidity.
 
How does the 30 sec shot taste? If you are pleased with the result - don't worry what spring lever max pressure is. 10+ bar pressure isn't the holy grail. If you grind finer than your current setting, you will extend shot length which will tone down acidity.
I prefer the taste of shots with higher pressure (10.5). I'd like to experiment with longer PI at this pressure but I cannot do it because PI must be set to at least 2.5 and with that setting the puck starts sweating after 2-3 seconds when I grind to brew in 30-ish seconds.
 
Then grind to brew in 40-ish seconds? I see you're trying to match the numbers from other people....if you're using the same grinder and the same coffee then you should get close, otherwise I wouldn't expect to be able to get things the same.
 
Then grind to brew in 40-ish seconds? I see you're trying to match the numbers from other people....if you're using the same grinder and the same coffee then you should get close, otherwise I wouldn't expect to be able to get things the same.
You are missing the point, I'm not trying to match anyone, I want to keep my current preferred recipe brewing at 10.5 bar but with longer preinfusion at lower pressure. The main design criteria for the machine was to have two springs in the group so that higher brewing pressure could be achieved, but mine doesn't do that unless I keep the PI pressure high as well.
 
Well, you have a problem then.

The group pressure profile is not linear, it applies more pressure at the beginning and less after.

So if you want 10.5 bar you need to get the spring to "catch" earlier. To do that, you need to have the pluck saturated and high pressure in the chamber earlier. For that to happen, you need higher PI pressure.
 
@rusty pie grind finer. If shot too slow, pre infuse longer. If pre in fusion is too long, increase PI pressure. Repeat until happy. The longer the pre infusion, the faster the shot runs after that.
 
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Well, you have a problem then.

The group pressure profile is not linear, it applies more pressure at the beginning and less after.

So if you want 10.5 bar you need to get the spring to "catch" earlier. To do that, you need to have the pluck saturated and high pressure in the chamber earlier. For that to happen, you need higher PI pressure.
That's not true...the theory is good, but in practice that's not what happens. I was set up at about 1.3 bar and I still managed to get 10 or 10.5 bar and my group was an old group with 6 or 7 years commercial use on it.

@DavecUK

I bow to your superior knowledge! I thought that there was an optimum amount of headroom between the top of the puck and the bottom of the showescreen?
I'm not sure when all that got invented...I only know I don't want the screen to touch the puck when I lock it in. That screen also dips down into the PF once it's locked in, so the headspace is not as great as you see.
 
I want to keep my current preferred recipe brewing at 10.5 bar but with longer preinfusion at lower pressure.
As I understand it and @DavecUK correct me if I am wrong, achieving the maximum spring bar pressure (around 10.5 bar) requires there to be sufficient resistance in the puck. Pretty sure if you dispense with any PI period, i.e. hit the dry puck with full spring lever pressure, you will achieve higher spring lever bar pressure irrespective of what PI bar pressure you set. Only caveat to the above is the degree of grind used.
 
I would grind finer and try the 40-50s shots first. Levers shot times are OK to take longer but I wonder if this applies to our Leva (we all know, as a wise fake account once said on HB "a machine with a pump is not a lever" .. It's a bicycle 🚴). Seriously grind finer before changing the PI pressure and let us know.
 
I would grind finer and try the 40-50s shots first. Levers shot times are OK to take longer but I wonder if this applies to our Leva (we all know, as a wise fake account once said on HB "a machine with a pump is not a lever" .. It's a bicycle ????). Seriously grind finer before changing the PI pressure and let us know.
Happy Eddie Murphy GIF by Laff


How to answer that one...Well, there's a manufacturer who sells Levers that can only be plumbed, and Levers that can only be run from a tank that have a pump....but not both. So the wise owl who made that funny comment might be right...

But what about a Lever like the Vesuvius Evo Leva, it can be, pumped, and it can be plumbed in....all without affecting preinfusion pressures...seems to be the best of both worlds...perhaps it's a Ferrari, it's certainly Italian. That's without even mentioning all the other advanced stuff.
 
Happy Eddie Murphy GIF by Laff

How to answer that one...Well, there's a manufacturer who sells Levers that can only be plumbed, and Levers that can only be run from a tank that have a pump....but not both. So the wise owl who made that funny comment might be right...

But what about a Lever like the Vesuvius Evo Leva, it can be, pumped, and it can be plumbed in....all without affecting preinfusion pressures...seems to be the best of both worlds...perhaps it's a Ferrari, it's certainly Italian. That's without even mentioning all the other advanced stuff.
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You are missing the point, I'm not trying to match anyone, I want to keep my current preferred recipe brewing at 10.5 bar but with longer preinfusion at lower pressure. The main design criteria for the machine was to have two springs in the group so that higher brewing pressure could be achieved, but mine doesn't do that unless I keep the PI pressure high as well.
I'm really not. Whether you're trying to match somebody else's numbers or numbers you just want to hit, you can't force a coffee to behave in a specific way. It's not the machine, it's the coffee (or possibly the grinder). Low pressure starts make pucks less resistant to pressure later on (which is why you aren't hitting max pressure). You might be able to achieve a low pressure pre-infusion and a 10.5 bar shot at suitable flow rate to deliver a 2:1 ratio in 30 seconds withe one coffee and grinder/grind setting but not be able to do it with another. If you've been able to achieve this on another machine, are the basket diameter and puck depth the same?

Regardless, if you want to hit your max pressure with extended pre-infusion you'll need to either grind finer or dose more.
 
Old adage of water being lazy is relevant. Once the puck is saturated, it swells and, as a consequence, offers less resistance to the force generated by the spring lever.
For anyone interested in actual proof… that's on a Londinium. The concept is the same though.

 
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