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Are you getting sticky/stuck pucks? Please give me your feedback

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7K views 46 replies 15 participants last post by  MediumRoastSteam  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
As per title. I'm trying to gauge if anyone is getting sticky/stuck pucks to the group of their machines after brewing. E.g.: You brew your coffee, you remove the portafilter, the basket is empty. The coffee puck remains stuck to the shower screen. You blip the pump and it falls.

If you are getting stuck pucks, could you please tell me:

- Which machine;
- Any modifications from stock;
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc)
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping)
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g);
- Which grinder;
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc...
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change?
- Any other comments.

From my experience so far - and hence gathering more data - I can tell you that a gasket, a basket or even the grinder can make all the difference between having it 90% of the time vs never having a stuck puck at all. I'd be delighted to hear from you if you have or are currently experiencing it.

Please only reply to the questions above, all of them, per post. Serious business only.

To the interest of this study, please refrain from adding useless comments such "how did it taste?" or "do you drink your coffee puck?" please. I get it has no bearing on taste, but I know we all get a bit annoyed when it happens. 🙂

Thank you!

----

I'll start:

Lelit Elizabeth, Cafelat Gasket 8mm, IMS 18g. Mainly LSOL/Light roasted, consumed within 3 weeks from roast date. 18g dose, Niche Zero. Was getting 95% of the time at one point. Mitigated by ditching the Cafelat gasket and going back to the the stock gasket from Lelit (plain old 8mm E61 rubber gasket and unlocking the portafilter holding the PF from the edge of the handle, closest to me, pushing it down slightly - just gravity will do, holding it loosely). I hardly ever get a stuck puck now.
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
LM GS3 MP

cafelat gasket

stock screen

18g VST

Square mile red brick, less than one month old

18g dose, WDT then tamp 58.4mm, no spinner or OCD.

6 sec pre infusion at 2 bar then 9 bar ramping down to 6 bar. Total shot time 27 secs.

Ceado e37s

Stuck puck 50% of the time.

Mitigated by slackening PF slightly then a quick burst of water through the group to knock the puck off. Puddle of water on top of the puck but lesser of two evils.
 
Z
#6 ·
MediumRoastSteam said:
Which machine;
- Any modifications from stock; no
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) vst 18g
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping)
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g);
- Which grinder;
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc...
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change?
- Any other
Click to expand...
Which machine; Liz

- Any modifications from stock; no

- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc)

vst 18g

- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping)

no idea

- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g); 18g to 19g depends on grind size

- Which grinder; Niche

- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc...

about 1 once week, no idea of %

- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change?

nothing

- Any other comments

no
 
B
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
ECM Synchronika 2020

Cafelat silicone gasket 8.0 mm

stock screen and IMS Nanotech (seems to have made no difference)

18g VST unridged

UE house roast at present, approx 4 weeks old but stored in airscape jar.

18g dose, WDT with cocktail stick, tamp with ECM tamper.

~7s Pre wetting. 26-28s shot (36g is my target as opposed to shot time)

Eureka Mignon MkII

Puck sticks approx 80% of the time. Rarely knocks out cleanly even if it doesn't stick to the screen. Sometimes I have a sort of layered construction to the puck remnants after incoming it out, kind of line sedimentary rock.

My next step will be to try a 20g basket whilst maintaining 18g dose.

I also think that the 8.0 gasket is incorrect and that I should have the 8.5. WLL and BB advice on the gasket thickness for an ECM is contradictory.

To remove the stuck puck I use the empty PF. I line up the basket with the puck and position it over the puck to about half depth (ensuring top of basket will still clear the group) then I slowly move the PF towards me which slides the puck off the screen. Very little movement is needed to release the suction and 99% of the puck just drops into the basket. Forward flush and a wipe deals with the rest.
 
#8 ·
B-Roadie said:
ECM Synchronika 2020

Cafelat silicone gasket 8.0 mm

stock screen and IMS Nanotech (seems to have made no difference)

18g VST unridged

UE house roast at present, approx 4 weeks old but stored in airscape jar.

18g dose, WDT with cocktail stick, tamp with ECM tamper.

~7s Pre wetting. 26-28s shot (36g is my target as opposed to shot time)

Eureka Mignon MkII

Puck sticks approx 80% of the time. Rarely knocks out cleanly even if it doesn't stick to the screen. Sometimes I have a sort of layered construction to the puck remnants after incoming it out, kind of line sedimentary rock.

My next step will be to try a 20g basket whilst maintaining 18g dose.

I also think that the 8.0 gasket is incorrect and that I should have the 8.5. WLL and BB advice on the gasket thickness for an ECM is contradictory.

To remove the stuck puck I use the empty PF. I line up the basket with the puck and position it over the puck to about half depth (ensuring top of basket will still clear the group) then I slowly move the PF towards me which slides the puck off the screen. Very little movement is needed to release the suction and 99% of the puck just drops into the basket. Forward flush and a wipe deals with the rest.
Click to expand...
Thank you, appreciated. Try disengaging the PF as per my comment above. Let me know if that helps. Also, for your machine, try lowering the lever slowly rather than 1 downward sudden movement. If the PF locks st 6 o'clock, keep the 8mm gasket. If goes past if, then use a 8.5mm one.
 
C
#12 ·
Not sure if you are still after data but here's my info:

Fracino Classico

Cafelat silicone 8mm red gasket

IMS Competition shower screen Nanotech

Stock 18gm basket

Variety of beans from sellers listed on this forum - all less than 3 weeks old from roasting

17.5 gm

Mazzer Super Jolly

90% of the time

No mitigation - I simply remove the portafilter & hold it just under the puck & knock into basket.

Cheers.
 
#13 ·
@lake_m @Caffeine fan - I've been using three different IMS baskets, all 26.5h, and they seem to pretty much solve the stuck puck issue. With the VST I have to be careful not to get a stuck puck. With the IMS ones, I can just do whatever I want and I never have one.

If you get the chance to one day give it a go, I'd love to hear from you.

The baskets I tested were:

B70 2T h26.5 M - ridged
B68 2T C h26.5 E - ridgeless

I'm yet to try "the single"
 
C
#17 ·
MediumRoastSteam said:
@lake_m @Caffeine fan - I've been using three different IMS baskets, all 26.5h, and they seem to pretty much solve the stuck puck issue. With the VST I have to be careful not to get a stuck puck. With the IMS ones, I can just do whatever I want and I never have one.

If you get the chance to one day give it a go, I'd love to hear from you.

The baskets I tested were:

B70 2T h26.5 M - ridged
B68 2T C h26.5 E - ridgeless

I'm yet to try "the single"
Click to expand...
Thanks fo the heads up. I see the basket is good for 16 - 20 gm doses - does this work at 20gm? Thanks
 
#14 ·
I have the B68 2T h24.5 M - ridgeless but haven't been using it. I'll give it a go and report back.

I have noticed that with the VST if you knock out the puck straight after pulling the shot it hardly ever sticks. If you leave it in there for more than ten minutes, it will stick.

My wife drinks a dark roasted decaf, and that nearly always sticks regardless.
 
#15 ·
lake_m said:
I have the B68 2T h24.5 M - ridgeless but haven't been using it. I'll give it a go and report back.

I have noticed that with the VST if you knock out the puck straight after pulling the shot it hardly ever sticks. If you leave it in there for more than ten minutes, it will stick.

My wife drinks a dark roasted decaf, and that nearly always sticks regardless.
Click to expand...
This is the one I don't have 🙂 - Would be interesting to know what your experience is.
 
#16 ·
- Which machine; SAGE BE
- Any modifications from stock; No
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) Stock
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping) All coffees when I've dosed over 19g
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g); See above
- Which grinder; Niche Zero
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc... Probably 25%
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change? No mitigation
- Any other comments. It doesn't bother me any more. I find that unlocking the pf and doing a +5/-5 degree horizontal wiggle (around the PF Z-axis) as a matter of course gets the puck out cleanly
 
#22 ·
Think @BlackCatCoffee might stock those. The IMS codes are tricky.

The first part (B68/B70) doesn't matter too much, as it's the border diameter. The bit that matters is the height, e.g.: h26.5.

I have one for sale - it's in the For Sale section - but it's slightly deeper (h28.5) so really you are talking 20g at minimum, and comfortably going to 22g and maybe more at a push! If you like higher doses, 20g plus - then this is the 28.5h ones are the ones to go. for.
 
C
#23 ·
Ok. I have a 28.5mm IMs basket already but it only fits my naked portafilter which I am not using at present (mainly because I hadn't mastered how to use it). Might give this another go before I buy another. It will probably end up in a right mess but be interesting to see if the pucks stick. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks.
 
#24 ·
I'm not sure if you're interested in people who DON'T have this issue Bertie, but I'll chime in anyway.

- Which machine; Rocket R58
- Any modifications from stock; none except Cafelat blue silicone gasket
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) VST 18g Ridgeless
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping). LSOL, funky naturals esp Ethiopia, anywhere between 1-6 weeks after roast. Never frozen.
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g); 17.5-18.5
- Which grinder; Ceado E37s
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc...
I don't think it's happened more than once!
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change?
- Any other comments
Practically never happens. I think the one time it stuck, it was a very fine grind. However, my pucks are often a bit wet on top and knock out 'cleanly' only about 50% of the time.
 
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#26 ·
MediumRoastSteam said:
Which machine;
- Any modifications from stock;
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc)
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping)
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g);
- Which grinder;
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc...
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change?
- Any other comments.
Click to expand...
Hi MRS,

Isomac tea ll, no mods

baskets: 14g Ranchillia, Marzoco 17g, IMS comp. 19/22g

beans ~2-3 weeks old home roast

dosed according to size

brasilia rr45

Never figured out why it does that. My wife, when operating my machine would (used to) get it one out of two/three times.

Happens to me one out of 30?
 
#27 ·
@soundklinik - thanks. When your wife used to do it, was there with the IMS basket? When you do it, is it with the IMS basket? What I'm trying to say is, do you think it could've been the basket causing the difference? Also, do you lower the lever gently or in one sudden movement? And, could it have been that you wife used to unlock the PF more carefully than you?
 
#28 ·
You're welcome,

she was using mostly the 14g Rancilio basket because she likes "weaker" shots and when I used the same basket the puck would get stuck to shower screen fairly often, every other time with her...I don't know if she under dosed...I always explained it to myself the cause is the taper in this particular basket.

Marzoco 17g basket would rarely do it but it happened few rare times. Used mostly this one and I load 17-18g

The IMS is fairly new I shouldn't have mentioned it...didn't happen yet.

The worst is the Rancilio one that doesn't even belong on this machine.
We always lower the basket fairly gently one movement and (I) don't tighten the handle much...just so it doesn't leak, about 6 o'clock (silicone 8mm gasket )

Did you find some relation to some specific baskets?
 
N
#31 ·
I get a very messy puck stuck to the shower screen especially with the decaf beans I use.

- Machine: ECM Mechanika V Slim
- Modifications: IMS E61 Nanotec Precision Shower Screen
- Basket: 18g VST basket unridged
- Coffee: Typically a couple of week old. Stored in air tight jars. typically Square Mile or Climpson
- Dose: 18g
- Grinder: Niche Zero
- How frequent: 100% with my decaf Climpson coffee. Less often with 'proper' Climpson coffee.

All started since putting in the IMS shower screen

I am thinking of getting a 20g VST basket whilst maintaining my 18g dose.

any better ideas?
 
#32 ·
MediumRoastSteam said:
As per title. I'm trying to gauge if anyone is getting sticky/stuck pucks to the group of their machines after brewing. E.g.: You brew your coffee, you remove the portafilter, the basket is empty. The coffee puck remains stuck to the shower screen. You blip the pump and it falls.

If you are getting stuck pucks, could you please tell me:- Which machine - ACS Vesivius;
- Any modifications from stock - None;
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) - Stock
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping) - usually roasted up to couple of months (maximum) before use
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g) 19 or 19 g;
- Which grinder - Nuova Simonelli Mythos One;
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc... - I would say 50-75%
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change? - I have not tried anything as I do not believe it would affect the taste of the espresso (could well be wrong)
- Any other comments - I would consider the infusion as an important parameter in the equation as soaking the puck prior pushing the 9 bars through it should affect the swelling of the puck. I usually have between 1-15 seconds infusion and I am not surprised to see the puck sticking out given that I ensure its swellability. From my experience so far - and hence gathering more data - I can tell you that a gasket, a basket or even the grinder can make all the difference between having it 90% of the time vs never having a stuck puck at all. I'd be delighted to hear from you if you have or are currently experiencing it.

Please only reply to the questions above, all of them, per post. Serious business only.

To the interest of this study, please refrain from adding useless comments such "how did it taste?" or "do you drink your coffee puck?" please. I get it has no bearing on taste, but I know we all get a bit annoyed when it happens. 🙂

Thank you!

----

I'll start:

Lelit Elizabeth, Cafelat Gasket 8mm, IMS 18g. Mainly LSOL/Light roasted, consumed within 3 weeks from roast date. 18g dose, Niche Zero. Was getting 95% of the time at one point. Mitigated by ditching the Cafelat gasket and going back to the the stock gasket from Lelit (plain old 8mm E61 rubber gasket and unlocking the portafilter holding the PF from the edge of the handle, closest to me, pushing it down slightly - just gravity will do, holding it loosely). I hardly ever get a stuck puck now.
Click to expand...
If you are getting stuck pucks, could you please tell me:

- Which machine - ACS Vesivius;
- Any modifications from stock - None;
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) - Stock
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping) - usually roasted up to couple of months (maximum) before use
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g) 18 or 19 g;
- Which grinder - Nuova Simonelli Mythos One;
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc... - I would say 50-75%
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change? - I have not tried anything as I do not believe it would affect the taste of the espresso (could well be wrong)
- Any other comments - I would consider the infusion as an important parameter in the equation as soaking the puck prior pushing the 9 bars through it should affect the swelling of the puck. I usually have between 10-15 seconds infusion and I am not surprised to see the puck sticking out given that I ensure its swellability.

I would expect people not having infusion to have less problems with sticking puck.
 
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#33 ·
And just another thought, the roasting should also be a factor. Fro example dark roast in general are more hyrdophobic, more carbon stuff and will swell less, whence no sticking pucks (speculation as I have no data) medium and light roasts should suffer more with light leading the trend.

If people could share observations the picture might start to shape up.

Very good thread @MediumRoastSteama lot of learnings could be shared
 
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#34 ·
This morning, I have changed the beans and two shots in a row no sticking puck. Nothing else has been changed.
 
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#35 ·
@John Yossarian - it can be anything I find. It's almost a logic AND. Everything needs to be true for it to happen. If something is not there, then it won't. Beans are defo a culprit, and some are more prone to it than others.

When it happens to me, it stays there. A simple blip of the pump or just touching the side of the stuck puck with the inner wall of the basket gets it out, mess free. Check out how clean the basket is though. 😊 - ready for the next shot without cleaning!
 

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#37 · (Edited by Moderator)
MediumRoastSteam said:
@John Yossarian - it can be anything I find. It's almost a logic AND. Everything needs to be true for it to happen. If something is not there, then it won't. Beans are defo a culprit, and some are more prone to it than others.

When it happens to me, it stays there. A simple blip of the pump or just touching the side of the stuck puck with the inner wall of the basket gets it out, mess free. Check out how clean the basket is though. 😊 - ready for the next shot without cleaning!

View attachment 51841
Click to expand...
You are right, too many parameters to pick one or two.

This was not the case with my previous machine (the Appia). 9 bars from the start and the pucks were tight, never sticking and the basket was always clean.

My basket is not ridgeless and I always have a bit left. I also nudge it when it sticks and it is back in the basket without the mess. 😀
 
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#38 ·
@MediumRoastSteamAfter some experimentation the report is as follows:

1 kg beans over two weeks, more than 50 shots, not a single sticky puck. Yesterday changed the beans, and no surprises, the sticky pucks are back. 😀

Cheers
 
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#39 ·
- Which machine; Sage DB
- Any modifications from stock; IMS shower screen - may have helped a bit but doubt it.
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) Any
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping) Any
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g); Any
- Which grinder; All I have used
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc... Every time unless I mitigate - then rare
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change? Basket fill height is critical to under 1/2g and weight varies with different beans.

- Any other comments. Sage BE. Increasing dose eventually made the puck stick but a touch more prevented it. Noticed by others as well. The point where it stuck involved fractions of a gram changes.
 
2
#40 ·
I'm now a member of the club nobody wants to be in - team Sticky Puck! I moved onto a single dose workflow and settled on 15g as the ideal size to cut down decisioning between espresso and filter. This meant swapping the 18g VST for a 15g. It is early days but I'm getting them nearly every time. I attribute this to grinding finer (roughly 3 dots on the Niche). I hope that optimising preinfusion can help sort this out - or that I actually don't need to grind that fine. More workflow, more problems.

- Which machine - Lelit Elizabeth
- Any modifications from stock - No
- Which basket; (Stock, VST, IMS - please specify the model, capacity, etc, etc) VST 15g
- Which coffee, how old; (from roast date or since out of the freezer provided it was frozen straightway after shipping). Rave light roasts - 3 weeks post roast, minimal air exposure.
- Which dose (in grams, e.g.: 18g); 15g
- Which grinder; Niche Zero
- How frequent, i.e.: 90%, 50%, 25% of the shots, etc... 90%
- Can you mitigate it, how? What do you do differently? What did you change? I think upping preinfusion time may help.
- Any other comments.
 
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