[ajohn]

It's certainly quicker to use than a Pavoni and I would say a lot easier to get consistent results out of it. I used to drink coffee in a cafe that used a Pavoni.Not all that long ago but sadly now shut. It needs a rather set procedure to achieve that. He made excellent coffee with it. I'd suggest people who want to start using one should buy a timer of the type that people use as a shot timer until they find what suites and develop the rhythm that is needed. There are other variable than just pure grinder setting / ratios and shot time.

The video on the Robot looks good but grind for pressure and time will have been sorted out. As it does on a Pavoni. Personally I would unscrew the gauge and use ptfe to get it at a more sensible angle.

The main gain of the old version is the standby heat setting. Nothing else other than used is more likely to have problems and they seem to get them pretty often probably down to maintenance. Still it helps keep used prices up as people find it hard to resist buying one.

Robot - aeropress on steroids and if some one has had problems using one of those - some do what's different? Nothing essentially.

John

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[Slowpress]

I think traditional espresso machine users scratch their heads a bit at this type of manual device (Flair, Robot), but once you have given it a run through a few times (and cemented your workflow), there is complete pleasure to be had in the process. The "bother", previously mentioned, really isn't there (any more than it is for a traditional espresso machine cleanup; and don't forget the scale accommodation & maintenance part & repairs that go with a traditional espresso machine... those, to me, are a real bother!?). I find the whole manual process very "mindful", quite like the benefits of mediation. It is completely quiet, requires concentration & focus, all in a very peaceful & calming way. Most enjoyable.

Yes, it is different, and it takes an open-minded approach for the first few runs, but the espresso is so very good, you will be amazed at how something so simple and calming can add even more enjoyment to the espresso experience. Like any other espresso machine, you still have to take the time to dial in your beans, find the perfect brew temperature for the roast, determine the pressure & preinfusion parameters, dose ratio; you shouldn't just use it once or twice & give up. I will say it also gave me very promising shots right off the bat, so perhaps even easier to dial in than a traditional machine (in my limited experience).

It's a whole different type of enjoyment, not better or worse necessarily, just one other wonderful way to prepare & drink an excellent shot. I think there is merit in having both a manual device like this, as well as an espresso machine. They each have their benefits. So, @Coffee Fan Guy, don't abandon your Dual Boiler (please don't!!); instead, persist, and once you've mastered the DB, you've earned your badge to start collecting coffee gear & apparatus, like the rest of us fated souls! Then you can buy a Flair &/or a Robot!?

Also: There are numerous tiny scales to fit in the confined base of both Flair & Robot, especially on the Alibaba sites & the like. You might even find one in your local kitchen shop. I did! It is harder to find scales with an incorporated timer to fit, but they are beginning to be more available.

 

[Coffee Fan Guy]

I think traditional espresso machine users scratch their heads a bit at this type of manual device (Flair, Robot), but once you have given it a run through a few times (and cemented your workflow), there is complete pleasure to be had in the process. The "bother", previously mentioned, really isn't there (any more than it is for a traditional espresso machine cleanup; and don't forget the scale accommodation & maintenance part & repairs that go with a traditional espresso machine... those, to me, are a real bother!?). I find the whole manual process very "mindful", quite like the benefits of mediation. It is completely quiet, requires concentration & focus, all in a very peaceful & calming way. Most enjoyable.

Yes, it is different, and it takes an open-minded approach for the first few runs, but the espresso is so very good, you will be amazed at how something so simple and calming can add even more enjoyment to the espresso experience. Like any other espresso machine, you still have to take the time to dial in your beans, find the perfect brew temperature for the roast, determine the pressure & preinfusion parameters, dose ratio; you shouldn't just use it once or twice & give up. I will say it also gave me very promising shots right off the bat, so perhaps even easier to dial in than a traditional machine (in my limited experience).

It's a whole different type of enjoyment, not better or worse necessarily, just one other wonderful way to prepare & drink an excellent shot. I think there is merit in having both a manual device like this, as well as an espresso machine. They each have their benefits. So, @Coffee Fan Guy, don't abandon your Dual Boiler (please don't!!); instead, persist, and once you've mastered the DB, you've earned your badge to start collecting coffee gear & apparatus, like the rest of us fated souls! Then you can buy a Flair &/or a Robot!?

Also: There are numerous tiny scales to fit in the confined base of both Flair & Robot, especially on the Alibaba sites & the like. You might even find one in your local kitchen shop. I did! It is harder to find scales with an incorporated timer to fit, but they are beginning to be more available.

Posted Tuesday at 15:13 (edited)

Sorry but I think that my point is being lost somehow...

I am questioning the value of £1000+ spent on SDB. It may have been good value when it came out 8 or 9 years ago, but it is difficult to justify this ask and the hefty out of warrant maintenance schedule (no parts available for us to buy) today in light of other options there are in the market. That's it.

I fully expect that the thermojet currently available on the Barista Pro to make its way to the reasonably priced Dual Jet Pro when it is being replaced. That will make the case for the SDB at 4 to 5 times the cost even less convincing. No white glove service however glossy it is will make up for this!

Edited Tuesday at 15:14 by Coffee Fan Guy

Far from abandoning the DB - but still questioning its value!

The Robot would suit me better than the Flair I think.... But I can't justify having more gear really. I am a minimalist at heart, and not a collector. But I know what I will be buying if/when the DB dies on me.

"you've earned your badge to start collecting coffee gear & apparatus"

What badges are there to collect?

 

[ajohn]

There have been machines about with thermothingy steam and boiler for brew. Also I think one with dual thermojet. German make better know for meat slicers and I'd hope it's a lot better than the same makers grinder.

The barista pro is £700 the db is no longer on Sage's web site so have to switch to $. BP $900 DB $1500. The grinder in the BP is worth about $120 comparing the BE with an Infuser.. Add another pump, another thermothingy, more temperature control, more wiring and prices will increase. It still leaves the factor that puts some off thermo anything and that's scale. The extra thermothingy might mean that oracle / db case tooling needs to be used to gain space.They sell a lot less of these and that aspect will show in the price.

Things get really interesting when the DB is compared with other dual boilers with the same spec. There is one oddity. They expect the volumetric aspect to be used the way it is on their other machines that have it. Commercial and higher end prosumer don't but there is a rather large increase in price. It also has a couple of features that in real terms are design flaws. Not the O rings a couple of other things.

Due to the parent company policy people wont be able to repair them themselves what ever they buy. Breville have tried that and also offering refurb exchanges. Currently an official repair seems to have to involve Sage in the UK. Actually the machines in the UK are handled by a distribution company that may have no connection to Breville.

Looks like the only part of europe that doesn't show the DB currently is the UK. It's 1200 euro in others so should be £1036 here. That is pretty remarkable value for what is in it compared with others. Perhaps that's why it's not shown now. Think it was £1300 or more when it was shown and has been higher.

LOL Also from my point of view considering theory and other things the DB is better than a BE and from posts on here the thermojet machines have exactly the same aspects that BE users will have noticed. Not that this should put people off buying Sage products in general. They can all make good coffee.

Oh and there have been changes since the DB came out. Some of their other coffee products have evolved as well. Usually to increase probably service life.

John

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[HBLP]

I agree. Buyers remorse is a common thing. I feel that unless you've used a flair and cino and prefer it to your current setup it would be massively unfair comparing them just based on reviews.

When it comes to coffee equipment especially, you can go off mainstream reviews. Here's an example, I Google best espresso machine and this was in one of the first links

View attachment 33074

I love how one of the only two 'reasons to buy' is also potentially a 'reason to avoid'

 

[ajohn]

It seems to be an odd sort of market to me. Some makers cobble together bits and pieces from commercial machines and invest as little as possible in making them. Breville must have put rather a lot in at some point.

John

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