Cremina is not sprung matey.......also you might like to further sort them into single/dual spring and pf or group size

Apologies, the new one is!

 

Cremina is not sprung matey.......also you might like to further sort them into single/dual spring and pf or group size

Apologies, the new one is!

Absolutely. That's the plan. And a lot more besides. When I get some time.

 

Elektra microcasa leva

 

There is also a one group version of the La San Marco 85 Leva or the newer 20/20 Leva (Commercial/ Plumbed only)

 

Vostock 1 (TBC)

 

Pre-orders taken and product shipping in weeks/ month or two - seems real enough not to need that.

 

Just noticed that the compressa should have a note to say that is plumbed in.

For the izzo leva etc - yes plumbed in, but not commercial specific to my knowledge - they are the same casing as duetto and available from @BlackCatCoffee for home use.

 

Just noticed that the compressa should have a note to say that is plumbed in.

For the izzo leva etc - yes plumbed in, but not commercial specific to my knowledge - they are the same casing as duetto and available from @BlackCatCoffee for home use.

You say the Izzo is not commercial, but do you happen to know what size the boiler is on it?

 

Not knocking the Izzo.......it is well respected in the coffee van community in the UK, which made me presume it was a commercially orientated machine. I had a Bosco once and that had 6 to 7 litre boiler......to me it just meant a longer warm up time!

 

regarding the large boiler on the Alex Izzo Leva - and I have one on order - my understanding is that boiler size is not a major determinant of overall heat up / readiness time ( a kettle can boil a litre of water in a small number of minutes,) which is determined by passive group heating, conceivably faster with a larger thermal mass of water heating the group. The actively heated group on the Vostok is the feature that nearly turned me in this direction.

Many home espresso machines have brew boilers that mean water will be hanging around for at least a good few days with light domestic use unless you flush genorously- the Izzo Leva certainly takes this to extremes ( the 5 L boiler has I think about 2-3 L of liquid in it, the remainder being steam space, as it is a dipper ) and I have decided to handle this by emptying out a litre or so of hot water via the HW outlet every day or two to avoid the boiler water getting too stale. Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

 

regarding the large boiler on the Alex Izzo Leva - and I have one on order - my understanding is that boiler size is not a major determinant of overall heat up / readiness time ( a kettle can boil a litre of water in a small number of minutes,) which is determined by passive group heating, conceivably faster with a larger thermal mass of water heating the group. The actively heated group on the Vostok is the feature that nearly turned me in this direction.

Many home espresso machines have brew boilers that mean water will be hanging around for at least a good few days with light domestic use unless you flush genorously- the Izzo Leva certainly takes this to extremes ( the 5 L boiler has I think about 2-3 L of liquid in it, the remainder being steam space, as it is a dipper ) and I have decided to handle this by emptying out a litre or so of hot water via the HW outlet every day or two to avoid the boiler water getting too stale. Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

I believe that's right. Group heatup will take longer (solution being a timing switch). Group cartridges are a bonus for me, the main pull was the ability to adjust brew/group temps while maintaining steam (we drink a lot of milk drinks). That and the group manometer which I think will be handy.

 

The Izzo Alex Leva is a prosumer machine by the look of it.Small footprint.

 

The Izzo Valexia has arrived and I'm loving it. Thanks for the inspiration

 

@tompoland Thats one big boy!

 

Indeed, 46kg. Just about did me in getting it up onto the bench. I think my days of wrestling with Italian Heavyweights may be over.

 

How much am I looking at for the cheapest sprung lever machine?

I was hoping to change from my europicolla but looking at Londinium for example it looks like I'll have to spend £3k+.

Thanks.

 

The strega prob one of the cheapest.

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-coffee-machines/products/bezzera-strega-s

Then the profitec

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/profitec-800-hand-lever-machine-with-pid-control.html

Londinium do a plumb only machine around 2k but id highly stay away from that one.

 

Londinium do a plumb only machine around 2k but id highly stay away from that one.

Why? I have read several posts on other forums from content owners of that one.

 

its alot of money for what it is, and its not just a few bits short of an lr24

i know a guy who has one, and regrets getting that now, as he was going to add the pump to it at a later date, as he was shy on money at the time, londinium wont sell him the bits,

its a direct water feed too, and has to have a drain fitted, so needs a safe filtered water supply with carbon block, aswell as a valve if you want to adjust the pressure to brew, its also always under mains pressure

 

@haz_pro - have you seen the size of the boiler on the Profitec? It's also a dipper, so you'll need to refresh the water quite often, or it will sit there for… weeks. @khampal had a QuickMill Rapida (or is it a Veloce)? Which has a similar design. I'm sure he should be able to give you some insights.

I'm mainly hanging around https://*********************.com these days.

 

@haz_pro - have you seen the size of the boiler on the Profitec? It's also a dipper, so you'll need to refresh the water quite often, or it will sit there for… weeks. @khampal had a QuickMill Rapida (or is it a Veloce)? Which has a similar design. I'm sure he should be able to give you some insights.

I'm mainly hanging around https://*********************.com these days.

Yeah I'd seen the boiler size - the impact being a longer warm up time/increased energy cost right? Or is there more to consider?

Interesting point about the water sitting there and needing to be refreshed. Is that not just if it's not being used? In which case if I didn't use another machine for a few weeks the water would also just be sitting there? Or do you mean - because of the size of the tank it means the water is likely to spend a lot more time in the boiler rather than a machine with a smaller boiler?

Seems I have some more to learn!😂

 

depending on water used of coarse.

none of these levers will be silent as there is some pump action with them

 

depending on water used of coarse

Of course. But even when I drank some water for an Americano the other day, using the steam boiler of the Elizabeth, the water wasn't great, taste wise.

 

As Cuprajake rightly points out, both the Bezzera and Profitec use a pump so both will make a noise (although they are quite different in the way they do so).

Both have their pros and cons but if you are interested in the Bezzera given me a shout as I went a bit loopy on Stregas in my last order and I can probably come up with one at an even more attractive price for you.

David

 

I think they recommend draining water from the steam boiler regularly.

Must admit i drink quite a few black drinks, so use the steam boiler tap quite regular.

If there like the londinium then yes just the boiler gets filled with the pump. The later londinium used rotary pumps to actually manipulate brew pressure. The acs goes ones step further with a gear pump.

I love the look and action of a lever but there not the be all end all, and some of the more basic machines can almost be a one trick pony. So think very carefully as youe on the brink of top dual boiler machines that would give alot more than a vibr pump hx machine imo

 

I

think they recommend draining water from the steam boiler regularly.

Must admit i drink quite a few black drinks, so use the steam boiler tap quite regular.

If there like the londinium then yes just the boiler gets filled with the pump. The later londinium used rotary pumps to actually manipulate brew pressure. The acs goes ones step further with a gear pump.

I love the look and action of a lever but there not the be all end all, and some of the more basic machines can almost be a one trick pony. So think very carefully as youe on the brink of top dual boiler machines that would give alot more than a vibr pump hx machine imo

Thanks all for the replies.

I just don't have the same feeling about non-lever machines - they don't interest me. That being said I've never properly looked at the more expensive non-lever machines, maybe I need to. What would you recommend? 2 to 3 ish grand.

I got a price back to the ACS Vesuvius lever, which looks interesting, but I'm not sure how I feel about the screen/additional tech. I do like simplicity.

Decisions decisions eh

 

Plumbing isnt always simple, sadly esp in hard water area's, very costly filtration is needed inline, i looked into it when we moved with the l1

 

Yeah but it often is and even a RO setup need not be that expensive. It might not be the right solution for many but there's no need to dismiss it out of hand.

 

Ro and plumbing are kinda different though.

I make rodi and then re mineralise, where as a tap feed to a block to make machine safe water tends to get more expensive.

Think thats my alot go for the osmio thing, but again in my eyes they too can be a tad expensive, but tbf to them its a very convenient solution

 

Ro and plumbing are kinda different though.

I make rodi and then re mineralise, where as a tap feed to a block to make machine safe water tends to get more expensive.

Think thats my alot go for the osmio thing, but again in my eyes they too can be a tad expensive, but tbf to them its a very convenient solution

I've just purchased an rodi for my marine tank. My understanding is I could either tee off (after the membrane and before the DI resin) or after. I was under the assumption that you add bicarbonate of soda but I think there's more.

Mind explaining how to re mineralise?

 

Its a trick choice because each machine brings different things to the table.

If you take the older levers

Londinium 1, strega, profitec then they all work at a set pressure of the spring

Then you move to the lr24, acs leva and they have a pump to change pressure so you can change to use different beans.

The acs is dual boiler were the londinium is slightly older tech where you cant really adjust temp.

Then if you look at dual boilers like the profitec 700, or the bianca you can add flow control to the mix with the dual boilers,

Theres the decent which allows you to change every setting under the sun, and theres the all too expensive la marzoco linea which is a fixed rotary machine,

Ive also not mentioned a host of bezzera and izzo machine

But and a big but non of the pump machines can slam a puck like a lever can, they can deliver so much water in such a short time.

What sort lf beans do you drink? How many drinks are made at a time and do you use alot of milk/steaming

I think its best to set out what you want then find a machine that ticks most the boxes.

While i loved my l1, and would happily have another, id say i can make better drinks with my bianca, but my l1 was old tech, not that an e61 is any newer😂

 

Appreciate you taking the time to keep responding.

I like medium and light roast beans, I wouldn't buy dark on purpose.

One drink at a time, maybe 2 at a time once in a blue moon. And I pretty much always drink a milky coffee, espresso by itself very rarely.

Based on that, any lever and non-lever suggestions? I am 99% sure I'll end up with a lever, even if there is a compromise, simply because I enjoy the interaction and theatre. 😂

 

Ok, so you need to check the pressure the lever runs at

The l1 ran off a boiler pressure of 1.3 bar so it would infuse at 1.3 bar then the spring would kick in around 7bar

Something like the lr24 can be set, so most run 3bar up to 5bar for really light roast.

Not sure on the strega, what pressure does it infuse with @BlackCatCoffee?

The acs is twin spring but also a 53mm group

if you like med to light id be looking for a machine that can manipulate temp, and pressure.

so spring that only leave the acs or lr24 i think,

you could look at a acs Vesuvius which is a pressure profiler for around 2k if you speak to paulo from acs

 

Thanks - I've looked at the Lr24 again and price is only a few hundred more than the ACS... I'm sure when I looked before the LR24 was coming out at over £4k - I wonder what I was doing differently... I guess this is before shipping for the LR24 too as it won't give me a quote.

I suppose I need to look into these two machines a bit more. It seem that my wish for simplicity is in contradiction with the types of beans I like. I want this to be an end-game machine for me, so better get it right.

Edit - I'm an idiot. The ACS price was in euros. The LR would work about about £900 more!

 

Yeah its a tough choice one i had to make, i bought 3 machine intotal supposed to be end game 2 were faulty.

 

Gees. Which 2 were faulty?

Based on your previous messages one was an lr24?

 

Yeah, crem one profiler, and an lr24😭

 

With my luck I'll end up having to do the same.😂 Are you pretty settled on the Bianca now? No itch to get another lever?