[ajohn]

A slightly s/h PID controlled DB and rotary pump machine is my preferred spe

Vibe pumps are a pain but if you had hung around on here long enough you'd notice people wondering about ways of adding a controlled pre infusion to a rotary pump machine. Since my absence there seems to be less posts about this sort of thing - different people around. There is no end to it. Buy a lever and what comes out will be dependent on how that is manipulated, maybe not on some. Buy a Vesuvius and I believe you would get your rotary pump and any old preinfusion you might desire. HX has it's problems. An old post goes through using a fan to get round some of them but a DB is likely to do better but some will have better temp stability than others.

Maybe one step people should take is bottomless portafilter and a shot mirror to see what is going on.

 

[Like Medium Strong Coffee]

Maybe I'm wrong and the Lever itch will return sooner, but Jakes initial problems illustrated that a lever machine is a technique to be learned slowly, I've also watched other members upgrade and have issues with machines with lots of variables, hence my position that a sensible next step would be a regular DB, reinforce and progress my own abilities and then maybe when the pressure/flow controllable tech is more mature move on to that. There is a plan, but you know what they say about the best laid plans....

The itch to upgrade. 😂

If you think this will return sooner than you think it will, you might want to take a pause, ask the experts like @DavecUK, @dfk41, @Cuprajake , @Rob1 take a closer look at what you can afford, may be post a new thread (if required) and go from there. Please do read the lever threads including the new Vesuvius lever thread.

Please take your time and decide.

FWIW, I am on the V Evo Leva pre-order. A massive end-game upgrade for me from brews and cheap espresso machines. Fun and despair are defo in store. I am not scared though 😅

Of course, you can always sell and upgrade. 😊

 

[cuprajake]

My issuse were my own doing, too much reading,

I settled on 14g in the 16g stock basket

Quick wdt and tamp, 5sec lever down then lift

The original londinium you dont wait for drips in the actual paper work that came with.

For me though the machine is very much designed around med/dark roasts and to this it excells, anything lighter and you will struggle as it only has boiler pressure to infuse, 1.5bar.

Ive actually decided to sell mine, ive been on the lookout for the lr which allows you to change the pre infusion pressures and to play with extraction. I did find one but im not paying £2500 for a used machine,

Ive ordered a crem one 2b lfpp from Bella barista, it was ment to be here yesterday (sat) paid £30 shipping. Nothing came sadly and now it appears to be lost on the tracking.

I will however be using a lever profile for extractions.

Heres the londinium on a med roast

 

[Deegee]

First off, sorry to @Sbug for the continued threadjack, this wasn't my intention when I chimed in on this thread.

Re Lever machines, I'm curious about them, I like the traditional nature of them, but I'm very aware that they require a fair bit of learning, plus our kitchen at present won't allow one simply because of the height of the lever interfering with cupboard doors, so while I like the idea, it isn't happening for the time being regardless of my wants etc, maybe in the future, a dedicated coffee corner is in the design for the kitchen revamp, so I'll make sure I've got the headroom required for a lever - should that itch need scratching of course. 😉

My primary reason for upgrading is the small boiler in the GC, I've got coffee consuming family that at some point in the not too far distant future will be allowed back to visit, the GC Pro simply can't produce 4-6 coffees together in a timely manner, hence I'm looking at upgrading and was interested in what other members thought was a logical step from the GC and to see if that aligned with my own ideas on the next step up.

Fwiw @ajohn I had looked at the Vesuvius and I do love the idea of pre-infusion, but they are rare beasts second hand, iirc I've only seen 3 come up for sale on here in the last year or so, although they're slow to sell when they do, sadly at present the V is too high to fit under our cupboards and put a cup on top of it, so it's a non starter unfortunately.

Hi there @Cuprajake, not surprised you're selling the Londinium, you've gone through a fair few grinders and machines in the last year or so, so it's par for the course you're moving on again, fingers crossed the Crem arrives soon and turns out to be a keeper. 👍

 

[cuprajake]

Id happily move to an lr i just cant warrent so much on a used machine

 

[4085]

@Cuprajake Hiya, can you remind me what roast style your preference is again. I have only had the original L1 variant but plenty on here, such as @The Systemic Kid have had the older and the LR variant. Sometimes it is a shame that new price increases have the effect of raising second hand prices, but anyway, let's see if we can identify and help you to get the best out of your L1.

 

[Joe shorrock]

2 hours ago, Cuprajake said:

My issuse were my own doing, too much reading,

I settled on 14g in the 16g stock basket

Quick wdt and tamp, 5sec lever down then lift

The original londinium you dont wait for drips in the actual paper work that came with.

For me though the machine is very much designed around med/dark roasts and to this it excells, anything lighter and you will struggle as it only has boiler pressure to infuse, 1.5bar.

Ive actually decided to sell mine, ive been on the lookout for the lr which allows you to change the pre infusion pressures and to play with extraction. I did find one but im not paying £2500 for a used machine,

Ive ordered a crem one 2b lfpp from Bella barista, it was ment to be here yesterday (sat) paid £30 shipping. Nothing came sadly and now it appears to be lost on the tracking.

I will however be using a lever profile for extractions.

Heres the londinium on a med roast

Like a change don't ya pal 😂

 

[cuprajake]

I like all sorts,

The londo is very med roast orientated. And with thos i can get some very nice drinks indeed.

When i try a lighter roast, thats where it struggles,. The grinders fine, hence wanting to try the lr.

I believe he still offers the normal price if laying by bacs, its card companies and paypal that take a massive cut etc

His customer service has been bang on with me, when i was struggling with it at the start he offered to video call me

 

[4085]

@Cuprajake Jake, I know it sounds daft, but if you get good results with your L1 using medium roasts, and enjoy them, why not stick with that and perhaps save the lighter stuff for a bit of brewed? It sounds like you will need the latest itinerant of LR, prior to the 24 to allow you to have the transducer and ap to play around with

 

[cuprajake]

@Joe shorrock at the time i bought the l1 there were 2 lr for sale around the 2k mark,

For me i wasnt sure if like the londinium so i went for the cheaper l1, should of gone for the lr but sometimes when you're just not sure

Fwiw most profiling machines always settle on a londinium profile 😂😂😂

 

[cuprajake]

@dfk41 im at the limitations of the machine now i suppose.

And yeah the one i found was that model you mention but £2500 ..

 

[4085]

@Cuprajake as much as I hate saying it Jake, £2500 is about the price of the new Vesuvius Evo Leva......you should drop TSK a line when he is back from holidays, and put a ski mask on and pop over and have a look at his.......people call me a Londinium basher, but that is because it suits their narrative. I have had a few L1's and really do admire them, but I also know their limitations and it seems a no bargainer buying a used LR to a new Evo.......but, I am quite prepared to be wrong!

 

[ajohn]

I had looked at the Vesuvius and I do love the idea of pre-infusion,

You can get preinfusion on a rotary pump machine if it's plumbed in. The range depends on the pressure range the pump will accept and how well the E61 lever works. There should be a position where it just allows the supply water pressure through without the pump running.

Different types of machines can give different tastes. A factor that pushed me towards and SDB because of what can be changed in them. I didn't fancy a huge shiny expensive chunk of stuff and then finding I didn't like what it produced. No need to worry about cup warming on it. Never on long enough.

 

[cuprajake]

As good as that lever from acs may be, im a bit wary of being the first in a first run batch, if there any issues (probably none) but i dont have the time to faff.

That's whats wound me up so much with my del not coming.

I work 6 days a week, and it ment someone being at home all day yesterday and now monday too dam fedex

 

[4085]

@Cuprajake I get the first run thing. I bought a QM Veloce from BB (I was a little bit involved with the project and for my sins they asked me to name it). It turned out to have a few problems! The Evo Leva is slightly different in as much as Davec put the project together fro a design perspective. It uses on the whole, parts from other ACS machines which are a known quantity. Dave has had the Frankenstein as we cake it as a test bed for some 3 monhs or so. In that Time it has been been thoroughly tested, and is now at a stage where I believe half the first run of ten are built and just finishing testing before dispatch. The machines are air freighted so delivery through DHS is pretty accurate. But, the first two runs are sold out do any new takers would be in the third run, giving plenty of time for accurate owner feedback

 

[Sbug]

First off, sorry to @Sbug for the continued threadjack, this wasn't my intention when I chimed in on this thread.

Re Lever machines, I'm curious about them, I like the traditional nature of them, but I'm very aware that they require a fair bit of learning, plus our kitchen at present won't allow one simply because of the height of the lever interfering with cupboard doors, so while I like the idea, it isn't happening for the time being regardless of my wants etc, maybe in the future, a dedicated coffee corner is in the design for the kitchen revamp, so I'll make sure I've got the headroom required for a lever - should that itch need scratching of course. 😉

My primary reason for upgrading is the small boiler in the GC, I've got coffee consuming family that at some point in the not too far distant future will be allowed back to visit, the GC Pro simply can't produce 4-6 coffees together in a timely manner, hence I'm looking at upgrading and was interested in what other members thought was a logical step from the GC and to see if that aligned with my own ideas on the next step up.

Fwiw @ajohn I had looked at the Vesuvius and I do love the idea of pre-infusion, but they are rare beasts second hand, iirc I've only seen 3 come up for sale on here in the last year or so, although they're slow to sell when they do, sadly at present the V is too high to fit under our cupboards and put a cup on top of it, so it's a non starter unfortunately.

Hi there @Cuprajake, not surprised you're selling the Londinium, you've gone through a fair few grinders and machines in the last year or so, so it's par for the course you're moving on again, fingers crossed the Crem arrives soon and turns out to be a keeper. 👍

I'll let you off @Deegee - logged on to all these notifications and none for me 😞

LOL

 

[4085]

@Sbug Back on topic! The problems are firstly who to buy from, then what to buy. The retailer is very important and in Bella Barista and Black Cat Coffee (both forum sponsors) we are lucky to have two excellent retailers. Black Cat are ACS agents in the UK and they will have a machine in or around your budget. BB will have a wider choice but not the ACS machines. Have a look at both, but as always, everything you desire will be just out of range, but thats life! Talk to them. BC use the forum whereas BB you will need to ring or email them. People have said put a Pid on the Classic. Personally, I would not go down that route but different ships different captains

 

[Mrboots2u]

I like all sorts,

The londo is very med roast orientated. And with thos i can get some very nice drinks indeed.

When i try a lighter roast, thats where it struggles,. The grinders fine, hence wanting to try the lr.

I believe he still offers the normal price if laying by bacs, its card companies and paypal that take a massive cut etc

His customer service has been bang on with me, when i was struggling with it at the start he offered to video call me

Not negating your experience , just saying it won't be the same for everyone with that machine .

You dont see hardly any pressure/flow profiling machines in good coffeee shops , they will have 2to3 bar line pressure ( unless using a limiter ) , so do they all maker bad espresso for everyone , will come down to personal preference .

This again is my experience only , is different to yours , I am not right you are not wrong , no absolutes but I got good results from lighter roasts with a old l1 ( mythos , k30 , Ek43 grinders ) . You can always spend more money and get better , marginal gains and all that.

 

[Sbug]

@Sbug Back on topic! The problems are firstly who to buy from, then what to buy. The retailer is very important and in Bella Barista and Black Cat Coffee (both forum sponsors) we are lucky to have two excellent retailers. Black Cat are ACS agents in the UK and they will have a machine in or around your budget. BB will have a wider choice but not the ACS machines. Have a look at both, but as always, everything you desire will be just out of range, but thats life! Talk to them. BC use the forum whereas BB you will need to ring or email them. People have said put a Pid on the Classic. Personally, I would not go down that route but different ships different captains

Cheers! Yeah I have spoken to Bella Barista and they were really helpful, they actually steered me towards the Mara X - based on my budget of course.

Actually bought my Mignon grinder from Black Cat and agree also really helpful !!

 

[Eiffel]

@Sbug, have you considered the Lelit Elizabeth ? I can be found at roughly the same price as the MaraX, but adds adjustable pre-infusion, warms up faster than an E61 machine, is easier to maintain and is a double boiler design with the corresponding temperature stability/control ?