[4085]

Does the perfect grinder exist? if so, I have never seen it. If you single dose, then due to the nature of the fact there is no weight behind the beans you are going to suffer from article size difference, regardless of which grinder you have (except allegedly the EK but has that got its own foibles?).Personally I am not a big fan of single dosing, therefore cannot really see the point of comparing it to 2 grinders that require hoppers. I am a big fan of the Mythos, always have been and always will be but I cannot really see the point of comparing a 4 wheel drive with a 2 wheel drive then saying it got stuck in a field!

The Niche is what it is, and for £500, probably will be king of the hill in that sort of price bracket for a long time to come. if you want to spend more, then do.....if you want to single dose, then this could be for you.....I will always have one but doubt I will use it a great deal......does having to stir the grinds to mix them up bother me......not in the slightest, remembering that londinium designed a very expensive tool just for this, regardless of what grinder you have, and I reckon quite a few forum members own those tools, or something very similar

 

[4085]

If dfk's Niche is on tour then it's welcome to spend an overnighter here

Send Dave your addy M, and it can go to you if you like

 

[MildredM]

Thanks!

I'm not sure I will do it justice/can add more than has already been said . . . Let me sleep on it

 

[tohenk2]

Thanks!

I'm not sure I will do it justice/can add more than has already been said . . . Let me sleep on it

Oh but I do think you can do it justice.

 

[mctrials23]

Londinium designed a very expensive tool just for this, regardless of what grinder you have, and I reckon quite a few forum members own those tools, or something very similar

I have had my eye on one of those for a while but they are quite pricey... but they are very nice...

 

[L&R]

This seems to be the real Niche topic thank you.

 

[Zagato]

. . . Let me sleep on it

Well that would certainly be a novel stress test

 

[cold war kid]

Oh but I do think you can do it justice.

Me too. @MildredM nobody will expect you to give an indepth scientific analysis but that doesn't mean your thoughts won't be appreciated or valid.

 

[cold war kid]

Thanks @coffeechap for such a well thought out review. I've only just got mine and I'm working long hours at the moment so haven't had much of a play and haven't even begun to form my own opinions but I have question to ask you if I may? Do you feel that there is a chance that the inferiority in the cup compared to the more expensive grinders could partly be down to the brand new burrs on the Niche as opposed to the well worn in sets on the others or do you feel this is solely due to partical size variation?

 

[cold war kid]

Does the perfect grinder exist? if so, I have never seen it. If you single dose, then due to the nature of the fact there is no weight behind the beans you are going to suffer from article size difference, regardless of which grinder you have (except allegedly the EK but has that got its own foibles?).Personally I am not a big fan of single dosing, therefore cannot really see the point of comparing it to 2 grinders that require hoppers. I am a big fan of the Mythos, always have been and always will be but I cannot really see the point of comparing a 4 wheel drive with a 2 wheel drive then saying it got stuck in a field!

The Niche is what it is, and for £500, probably will be king of the hill in that sort of price bracket for a long time to come. if you want to spend more, then do.....if you want to single dose, then this could be for you.....I will always have one but doubt I will use it a great deal......does having to stir the grinds to mix them up bother me......not in the slightest, remembering that londinium designed a very expensive tool just for this, regardless of what grinder you have, and I reckon quite a few forum members own those tools, or something very similar

I have to agree with this. Nothing can be all things to all men and if somebody wants to spend a lot of money on a hobby and can afford to do so then that is fine, but I do worry when I read peoples posts on forums (particularly HB) that they're spending thousands chasing something that isn't there to be caught. I've only just received my Niche but at the moment I've already decided I'm not a fan of it's looks and would prefer a portafilter holder. Are the many advantages going to out way that? At the moment I'd almost certainly say yes.

I suppose it helps that I don't see the grinders it's compared to as it's competition really. I cant justify spending the sort of money that the Mythos and Monoliths of this world sell for. The rest of the family would quite rightly see it as a selfish act that could have gone on a family holiday when money is quite tight. I see it's competition to be more along the lines of a Baratza Sette. It's around the same price new, is geared to the domestic market, makes a big selling point of being zero retention and has a lot of buzz around it on the forums, especially in the US, where the product support that most people seem to need a lot of, is strong.

 

[Yannick]

Thanks for this review

It confirms that the Niche is the kind of grinder I was looking for. Easy to use, easy to change settings, not too big (Parisian kitchens are small) and single dosing. We will change beans and brew methods almost everyday

I will definitively not spend 2k€ on a grinder anytime soon so I will do with the cons.

 

[coffeechap]

I am not playing protagonist at all. I am questioning the point of road testing a Mini, an Aston Martin, An MGB and an other, then trying to decide which one is best. if you single dose and only have £500, then buy a Niche.......if you single dose and have substantially more, buy something else......if you want to make back to back shots buy a conventional hopper type grinder.....but you cannot compare apples to oranges and draw any meaningful result, in my humble.......

Pretty sure they did exactly this on a popular car show, gave them a budget and asked them to get the best car they could with the money. The mythos I have is less money than the Niche I used, both are used grinders, both could have been bought by anyone. If I had to choose between these two grinders alone , it would be the mythos! But I don't have to worry about size, single dosing, switching between lots off beans, switching between methods or having a wife that will point blank refuse to have a massive grinder in the kitchen, but if I had those considerations then the Niche would live i the cupboard and come out for coffee time!

An interesting grinder that I did not mention here was the santos of which I have a barely used one in the barista variant, it is really compact and capable of single dosing will swap between beans with little fuss and is very capable at all the different brew methods. Perhaps it is time to give it some serious time on the bench. The caveat here is that it is still twice the price of the Niche brand new and that is where Niche have nailed this!

 

[jimbojohn55]

Would be interesting if niche was working on a flat burr 75mm with small hopper and timer, motor size may be an issue and may need a bespoke burr set - im guessing. Certainly a flat version of some sort would seem the obvious next step. Would be very interested to see it stripped down - anyone done this yet? its got to be fairly straight forward.

 

[PaulL]

Interesting reading and thanks for sharing coffeechap. I sort of read almost great little grinder (albeit with marmite form and looks) but fundamental flaw in the uneven particle size of grinds.

Open question to all, where can one read about the desired shape and size of grinds, back to back blind-taste tests of 1st/2nd/3rd parts of shots from different grinders etc.? I'm not thinking Niche specifically, just the general assumption of what a grinder should produce.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

I do think CoffeeChaps's observations and evaluation are very valid. Still, to me it seems we are comparing apples and pears. If the argument here is that on single dosing grinders the main issue is that there's no downforce on the burrs from beans on a hopper, and that causes uneven particle sizes and distribution, why are we comparing this against a Mythos and a Royal? Were we single dosing the Mythos and the Royal too?

For most of us, a hopped grinder at home is just too much. There are plenty of posts on this forum about people modifying grinders for single dosing. To me at least, the fact that the Niche is a single dosing grinder, with big burrs and no retention is the unique selling point. Also, it's pretty much the first motorised single dose grinder which cost around £500.

So, taste wise, are we saying that the bad points about the Niche is the fact that it's single dosing? I wonder how it would compare against other single dosing grinders such as the the Hg-1, a motorised Hg-1, a Kinu M68, a Pharos or a Monolith conical. Would taste in the cup and particle size and distribution be roughly the same?

@Stanic, has yours arrived? any thoughts?

 

[PPapa]

I still don't agree with the negative points when compared with the Mythos. It's apples and oranges as we all know and the workflow will be different for sure! I wouldn't say it's a con, more of a difference.

One things I didn't like with Ceado E37s is that I run it with 150-200g of beans at most as I take a bit off for AeroPress at work. You dial in, purge so much (daily and between changing grind setting), then adjust the timer... by then you have few days to enjoy before the hopper is too empty and the pour quality goes down. This is what you would expect from an on demand and I can't fault it. It didn't work for me since the consumption is quite low in the household and I rarely have more than 250g of coffee in total (with an exception of 500g LSOLs and 350g bags).

Is Niche good for high volume use? Not at all, but it's not what it is meant to do.

 

[pj.walczak]

This is the contentious part for me as this grinder has a wide spread of particle size and as a result you HAVE to shake and stir the grinds in order to get a decent pour. I separated a few shots in a row, taking the first 5 g, middle and last of a 15g dose. There is a noticeable difference in the grind size between each of the divided 5g batches, This is because of the way the grinder grinds and is intended to be used. Its a single dose grinder and as such without weight of bean on the burrs, the particle size increases from the start to the finish of each dose.

Well this is a feature of most if not every single dose grinder. The same behavior I observered when single dosing with K10, K6, and I am sure we will see the same if we single dose Mythos. I have not used Monolith, but even there WDT tool is added and probably you will find the same characteristic of grind. Stirring/shaking is part of the routine for single dosing grinder.

Maybe grinders like Titus, Versalab (hybrid burrs) behave differently, but again I had not been lucky enough to test them. And you mentioned EK43, again this is the grinder that might not need stirring, however in most coffee shop they still use cups and some shaking.

But even with on demand grinders if you try the same test (splitting grind into 3 parts) probably you will see simmillar behavior, because the burrs has to start, stop, there is a bit of stałe coffee, bit of coffee grinds between the burrs etc. In my opinion even Mythos with light roasted coffee benefits from stirring coffee in portafilter with LDT.

So all is up to individual preferences. Do you prefer single dosing? If yes you have to live with the extended routine.

Do you want on demand? Fine. Can you achieve the same grind quality as Niche for 500 GBP. Probably yes. But some of us paid 350 GBP, and this is very hard to beat.

Which one I prefer, Mythos or Niche? Mythos

K10 or Niche? Niche! On demand vs single dose? I want both, love the flexibility.

Ps. And if you want you can mimic full hopper on Niche. Hopper is bigger then single dose, just make it full before every grind. Again different workflow, more difficult, but now you have Mazzer Kony grind quality.

This is how I was finally using K10. OE mini hopper with 50 grams of coffee all the time. This gave me best results.

[/QUOTE]

 

[MWJB]

Interesting reading and thanks for sharing coffeechap. I sort of read almost great little grinder (albeit with marmite form and looks) but fundamental flaw in the uneven particle size of grinds.

Open question to all, where can one read about the desired shape and size of grinds, back to back blind-taste tests of 1st/2nd/3rd parts of shots from different grinders etc.? I'm not thinking Niche specifically, just the general assumption of what a grinder should produce.

Nowhere, this data doesn't exist. Even if some of it does exist, it's not in the public domain.

There is a wide range of sizes that grinders can produce and still fall within the 'normal' range. I doubt the Niche will grind as fine as the EK-43, Mythos, or any other auger equipped flat burr grinder/hoppered grinder with a full hopper, but then it is neither of these things.

I doubt that its grind is significantly different to other gravity fed, single dose grinders and the grind size is different & not what Coffeechap has a preference for, but not exactly a fundamental flaw in the big scheme of things.

 

[Viernes]

I do think CoffeeChaps's observations and evaluation are very valid. Still, to me it seems we are comparing apples and pears. If the argument here is that on single dosing grinders the main issue is that there's no downforce on the burrs from beans on a hopper, and that causes uneven particle sizes and distribution, why are we comparing this against a Mythos and a Royal? Were we single dosing the Mythos and the Royal too?

I still don't agree with the negative points when compared with the Mythos. It's apples and oranges as we all know and the workflow will be different for sure! I wouldn't say it's a con, more of a difference.

I don't agree with the point that we are comparing apples and oranges and pears. To establish a fair comparison we need to use the grinders as they were designed.

The Niche as single dosing.

The Mythos with a full hopper.

Then compare the grind quality. We will find that while a Mythos produces a narrow distribution, the Niche produces a wide distribution and, perhaps, due to popcorning, with moderate or high variability between shots.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

I don't agree with the point that we are comparing apples and oranges and pears. To establish a fair comparison we need to use the grinders as they were designed.

The Niche as single dosing.

The Mythos with a full hopper.

Then compare the grind quality. We will find that while a Mythos produces a narrow distribution, the Niche produces a wide distribution and, perhaps, due to popcorning, with moderate or high variability between shots.

I suppose we have to agree to disagree. To me it seems, comparing a single dosing grinder with a full on hopper fed commercial grinder is like comparing a two seater sports car with a truck. Yes, both can take you from A to B, however I can't fit the truck on my drive neither can I take it for a spin on different roads on the same day.

What I'm trying to get is to be able to compare two grinders which are both designed for single dosing.