[rytopa]

My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..

 

[Step21]

My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..

Sssh! That's libelous.

 

[mcrmfc]

Hoff's a fan:

 

[dsc]

My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..

Exactly the reason why I'm considering one, seems like the perfect machine for a very quick shot and very little clean up + almost no waiting time for warm up.

T.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

Very interesting. Was rather surprised with regards to the thermal management... Just adding water off the boil. Very different in that respect when comparing to the Flair.

 

[Step21]

Preheat or not really depends on what type of roast you are using.

It is completely unnecessary and probably detrimental for dark roasts. It's probably necessary for the lightest of roasts. For medium I'd say it's more of a personal preference.

I've pulled shots on the lighter side of medium without pre heat and they taste good as they do with a pre heat. Maybe mutes acidity a little without?

It really has the most forgiving nature.

I think some people have memories of the ROK machine and thermal management problems. It is a non issue with the Robot. It just works.

Btw Hoffman's method of weighing the water is not recommended. The recommended method is to always fill the basket with water to approx 1cm below the top. If you use less (especially with a low dose) you can't generate as much pressure and may get a spongy feeling pull. Better off getting some small scales.

 

[the_partisan]

How do you weigh the output? I don't think my Brewista Smart Scale would fit under it.

 

[dsc]

Get a tiny pocket jewellers scale, there's millions of those on ebay.

T.

 

[Step21]

Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.

But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.

For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.

 

[dsc]

Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.

3:1 ratios are in lungo territory so if you pulling even longer shots then you are outside of normal espresso ratios. How much water fits in the PF? The Hoff went I think with around 50g, so around 3 x the dose as it would most likely absorb it's own weight in water and then give you smth close to 2:1. To get a shot larger than 3:1 with a 17g dose you'd theoretically need more than 4 x 17g = 68g of water (17g absorbed and 3x17g pushed through coffee). Will that fit in the PF?

It might be worth just checking at least once how much beverage you are actually getting in the cup

 

[ashcroc]

Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.

If you measure what you're doing for the larger shots you like (but keeping the amounts the same), you should be able to convert it to get a similar taste for your smaller dose.

 

[Step21]

3:1 ratios are in lungo territory so if you pulling even longer shots then you are outside of normal espresso ratios. How much water fits in the PF? The Hoff went I think with around 50g, so around 3 x the dose as it would most likely absorb it's own weight in water and then give you smth close to 2:1. To get a shot larger than 3:1 with a 17g dose you'd theoretically need more than 4 x 17g = 68g of water (17g absorbed and 3x17g pushed through coffee). Will that fit in the PF?

It might be worth just checking at least once how much beverage you are actually getting in the cup

The capacity of the basket is 120ml. I don't know how much volume a 17g dose + shower screen takes up.

I normally use the spouts to split 17g shots and it's very awkward to weigh anything with them attached. Doesn't leave much room for scales either. Next time I'll weigh the output after the shot but lungo ratio is easy to achieve.

I'm only interested in how it tastes, so if I'm going beyond the norms so be it.

My point really is that it's very easy to use whatever ratio of type of roast happens to be your preference. Maybe if all you ever drink are the lightest of roasts you might want something more exacting but at a price way beyond the Robot.

 

[Step21]

Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.

If you measure what you're doing for the larger shots you like (but keeping the amounts the same), you should be able to convert it to get a similar taste for your smaller dose.

I can but using a finer grind makes it a bit silty for my preference. I get very clean cups at a coarser grind. I'm also using paper filters under and above the puck. But at the finer grind it gets a little silty.

 

[Step21]

Results from a 17.13g dose + shower screen and filling up to a little below the top ( there is no marker so you have to eyeball it) is 58g output. So I'd reckon approx 75ml water in the basket.

So a little over lungo ratio for a full pull. I'd estimate 18/19g would be the maximum dose for a lungo. If you used a paper filter instead of the shower screen you could go slightly higher with the dose to get lungo.

Similarly without the shower screen you can go lower than 12g. 10g is the lowest I've tried.

Maximum recommended dose is 22g. Minimum 12g.

 

[Stevebee]

Third shot on the Robot. 17.0g in 40.5g out in 38s. Preinfusion for 6s at 2 bar, then 8 bar declining to 4 bar at the end.

TDS was 8.2% with EY 20.2% which is similar to what I get on the L1.

Niche on virtually the same grind as the L1, medium roast. Taste and texture was very good. Will try the EK later as I get +2% EY compared to the Niche when using the L1. Back to back workflow much easier and less messy than with the Flair. Just got a PacSafe travel case which can fit the Robot, accessories and the Feld47 with ease. The case is the same size as the box it was delivered in so not too cumbersome. My Robot's arms do not stay up but does not matter really to workflow. 8 bar is a fair amount of effort but you soon develop a technique that works best.

I stopped the shot at 36g but by the time I'd taken the photo, as my arms don't stay up, a few more grams went into the glass!

 

[Step21]

Robot's arms do not stay up but does not matter really to workflow. 8 bar is a fair amount of effort but you soon develop a technique that works best.

The arms aren't meant to stay up but it seems that some do initially. Old school, but it works is to put an elastic band between the claws to hold them up while you sort everything out after pulling the shot. I do this while preparing the shot and inserting the portafilter to give 2 free hands. Glad you like the Robot.

 

[Stevebee]

I'm grinding 5 or 6 marks finer on the Niche compared to the Flair. Due to the the difference in puck size I think being wider and shallower than the Flair. Once dialled in though, the taste of the shot is good on both.

 

[Stevebee]

The arms aren't meant to stay up but it seems that some do initially. Old school, but it works is to put an elastic band between the claws to hold them up while you sort everything out after pulling the shot. I do this while preparing the shot and inserting the portafilter to give 2 free hands. Glad you like the Robot.

Small elastic band worked perfectly. 2 or 3 now in the travel case.

 

[Deidre]

Third shot on the Robot. 17.0g in 40.5g out in 38s. Preinfusion for 6s at 2 bar, then 8 bar declining to 4 bar at the end.

TDS was 8.2% with EY 20.2% which is similar to what I get on the L1.

Niche on virtually the same grind as the L1, medium roast. Taste and texture was very good. Will try the EK later as I get +2% EY compared to the Niche when using the L1. Back to back workflow much easier and less messy than with the Flair. Just got a PacSafe travel case which can fit the Robot, accessories and the Feld47 with ease.

I noticed you mentioned having the Robot, Flair & L1. While recognizing the three are very different from each other in design & use & cleanup, I am interested in knowing if you find any differences in the flavour & mouthfeel of the espresso from the L1 compared to the fully manual levers? Do you get a better shot from the fully controllable manual levers than you do from the L1? (I find the temperature & preinfusion pressure on the L1 are somewhat controllable, but only to a point. My suspicion would be that the fully manual gives more control & therefore potentially a more customized output?)

 

[Stevebee]

If you could get the Robot to start at the same temp as the L1, which is possible, then do a 1.3 bar preinfusion for the same time followed by 7 bar declining to say 5 bar, the shots are in the same ballpark flavour wise and EY. Puck prep on the Robot is trickier as it's so deep it's difficult to see if it's 100% level so that could affect Extraction if not level. The L1 is just so much more repeatable one after the other but taste and body were similar using the Niche. Only done a few with the EK and so far it's definately not matching the L1 - more shots needed I think.

The Flair also produces very tasty shots but different - I'd say nearer the PV Lusso I had until recently. Don't know if it's the basket shape or the different grind settings I have to use. When dialled in though, very tasty. The major difference for me though is workflow. With the Flair I bought additional baskets so I could do consecutive shots, the Robot's workflow is more like a standard group. Pre heat is more straightforward - I put the cylinder of the Flair in the kettle whilst boiling, the Robot at most is fill and pour away once.

I'd happily drink an espresso from either and glad these two great options for espresso on the go are now available.