[L2en]

Well, I have had my Silvia for over six years now, second hand, the coffee machine just celebrated her 10th birthday. The temperature control is a pain, and the only reason I am considering an upgrade (Niche coming in December, but that is very very late update od £100 grinder from Nemox, which was supposed to be a short term solution, but I've used for the six years since getting the Silvia). I'm looking for a machine, which will last 10 years or more, I am not prone to upgrading needlessly just for a better shine as I hate change in general. But then if everyone was like this, capitalism would be dead, consumption is what drives it and it cannot be only the consumption of what one actually needs, that wouldn't be enough to keep this system going.

I'm really looking forward to the Niche as I love to try different beans andvarious brewing methods. And hoping I will choose the right machine to compliment it.

 

[Mrboots2u]

For me I was thinking about this, buying a Niche, maybe. I do like to have different coffees on the go.
Currently on my 5th cup of coffee today. And it's my 5th different bean!

1. V60 Brazilian Terra Petra (medium roast)
2. Americano Brazil Santos
3. Flat white Myanmar from Black cat
4. Flat white Columbian Yellow Bourbon
5. Cordato Terra Petra (light roast)

I was thinking a niche would be perfect for this, but then I didn't have £500.
So I bought a JX pro for £150, this does the job perfectly.

Would the niche be better? Maybe, but I no longer have a problem to solve on this front. As those coffees taste to me as good as it gets.

If I was an espresso drinker I may notice the nuance and upgrade.

I drinks maybe 10 espresso nowadays a month , with the odd filter Saturdays and Sunday's .

again it comes done to functionality , I don't want to hand grind at all , you don't mind , we both enjoy our coffee so we both made the right decisions

 

[-Mac]

Very interesting topic. I have made a conscious decision over the last decade to consider 'want v need' in my life. In my 20s and early 30s I was very wasteful, I spent a lot of money, most of it frivolously, I didn't consider whether I actually wanted things, I just enjoyed the moment. Now I apply a stricter process in deciding things. I'm interested in Peter Singer and his ethical approaches, I try to move in effective altruism directions and have become much more interested in animal and environmental ethics, I try to let these principles guide decisions, although I often fall short. If it's got past the process of need (which for coffee purposes often doesn't apply, you don't need any of this stuff), I often delay buying things, sometimes have them in shopping carts for days to consider if I actually want it. Same for running gear, tech stuff etc.

I've been reading the Niche threads and considering this issue. How much better will the Niche taste in the cup, how much do I need a Niche and is it just that I want it without really considering whether the bump in taste is something I actually need. On the face of it it seems a no-brainer, Niche is better than grinder I have, so upgrading is natural. But my coffee atm is lovely. How much better will a Niche make it? Do I need a 10%/20% or whatever it is bump? For £500 do I even want it?

My life got significantly better when I stopped using my BE grinder and started using my Niche

 

[24774]

My life got significantly better when I stopped using my BE grinder and started using my Niche

No doubt, but forgetting the other benefits, how much of that percentage increase was purely in the cup? Trouble is even that differs for person to person. I have a mate that would pay £500 for a 10% increase, I imagine lots of people on here would too. It's a hard equation I think which is why I find the original question interesting and a counter to my first thought of 'just buy it and find out'.

 

[-Mac]

Hard to say, my palate probably isn't educated enough to quantify it, but I'd say at least 10% for how I make my coffee (if I had to guess). However, I like the workflow and efficiency/lack of wastage of changing beans that I could entirely justify the decision (to myself) on that. It's a joy to use and I marvel at it every day. It makes me smile whenever I use it, and that's priceless.

 

[DavecUK]

Hard to say, my palate probably isn't educated enough to quantify it, but I'd say at least 10% for how I make my coffee (if I had to guess). However, I like the workflow and efficiency/lack of wastage of changing beans that I could entirely justify the decision (to myself) on that. It's a joy to use and I marvel at it every day. It makes me smile whenever I use it, and that's priceless.

I have a better grinder than the Niche, but prefer to use the Niche for exactly these reasons, I guess because grind wise it's good enough.... for me.

 

[-Mac]

It's one of the few things I own that honestly 'sparks joy'. My KTM is another. Shame I'm a hoarder.

 

[TomHughes]

I drinks maybe 10 prednisone espresso nowadays , with the odd filter Saturdays and Sunday's .

again it comes done to functionality , I don't want to hand grind at all , you don't mind , we both enjoy our coffee so we both made the right decisions

Indeed, I love hand-grinding.
Im ultra active so take any excuse to be more active, being it hand grinding, walking/running to the supermarket or biking the 2 hours each way to uni to lecture. Most people aren't like me, so I get the convenience of just pressing a button.

 

[Doram]

So the comment was regarding buying things to address a want (or a perceived positive gain) versus addressing a problem (removing/reducing a negative).

Returning to the opening post, isn't everything we buy to make coffee a 'want'? We don't 'need' temp stability, we don't 'need' zero retention, we don't 'need' espresso at all (okay, granted, we do ;-)). But we want these things and very lucky to be able to have things we want.

The other point made by Tom is that people often don't know how to get to the thing they want. This, I think, is a problem for many. With so many variables, it's often difficult to know what your weakest link is, and what effect your upgrade will bring. Then there is fear of missing out, if you think there is something out there that is holding you back. If you are lucky, or knowledgeable, your upgrade will do what you thought it would do. But often it doesn't, and then you either give up, or keep upgrading...

 

[hotmetal]

f you don't wanna get caught by upgrade fever , just log out the forum [emoji4]

Haha! Sage advice (with a small s)... just being on here is enough sometimes to make you wonder if you could do better with the latest [insert item]. Its how magazines drive other industries. Introduce elements of doubt, announce product that offers a solution... although I will say again; people on this forum have helped me immensely with getting to a happy place in my home coffee scenario and saved me from many expensive mistakes, or from concluding it's all too hard. I've done quite well in resisting upgraditis but just being aware of what other people are doing can easily lead to a renewed interest, and if the disposable income is there, you're standing in harm's way on here LOL!

I think FOMO is definitely a thing. Fortunately for me my material desires are fairly in line with my means to acquire them, so I tend to research, buy once(ish) and buy well (if I can) then use whatever it is until it turns to dust. Unlike my pal I was describing earlier, I've only had 6 bikes in 25 years and done maybe 200,000 miles on them from Denmark down to CZ and every day to work. I'm on my 4th grinder in 8 years and 2nd machine, pretty happy with that.

 

[MediumRoastSteam]

As for me... I'm very frugal with money, would never spend beyond my means. To the OP, it's interesting. For me, this is the only thing I actually spend money on, knowing that I enjoy it and can sell it on, because I look after my stuff very well. When we put this "hobby" which gives us a tasty drink every day, to he cost of ownership of cars for example, it's night and day. I sometimes had people at work "commenting" on my coffee machine, and "how expensive" it is... to me, it's a matter of priorities. Some people would spend the money I spend on a coffee machine which I can sell it on later for 70% of the price, on a car service and a set of tyres. (I, unlike many, have no interest in hi-fi, cameras, watches, bikes or cars - yep, I'm b-o-r-i-n-g! 😂😂😂😂!) Yet, they comment on my "expensive" hobby.

To me, I find upgraditus just happens when you feel you have reached the limit. This doesn't necessarily mean your equipment is not good enough, but it might simply mean you could explore another avenue in terms of improving your technique or just replacing the beans you drink. But, if you can, and fancy a change to try something different, why not? If you can and you enjoy, I see no reason why not. The caveat for me, would be as long as I could sell it on easily. So, there are a few things I'd wish I could try, but there's no way I'd buy, as I know it might end up staying with me for longer than I wanted. One thing I tend to do when upgrading, is to first sell what I have for the price I want, and only then buy my next equipment.

 

[Jason11]

There's a very good book I read not too long ago called "The Passion Paradox" by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness. I think anyone posting on this thread may find it an good read.

There's an interesting section that describes how the brain release's Dopamine when we really want something but as soon as we get it the brain no longer releases the chemical so in the end that 'must have' feeling we had fades away and we end looking to the next 'must have' to get it back.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mrboots2u]

Returning to the opening post, isn't everything we buy to make coffee a 'want'? We don't 'need' temp stability, we don't 'need' zero retention, we don't 'need' espresso at all (okay, granted, we do ;-)). But we want these things and very lucky to be able to have things we want.

The other point made by Tom is that people often don't know how to get to the thing they want. This, I think, is a problem for many. With so many variables, it's often difficult to know what your weakest link is, and what effect your upgrade will bring. Then there is fear of missing out, if you think there is something out there that is holding you back. If you are lucky, or knowledgeable, your upgrade will do what you thought it would do. But often it doesn't, and then you either give up, or keep upgrading...

To be fair without temps stability it's quite hard to make consistent espresso.

 

[Irisco]

Feeling a bit philosophical this morning, having heard a very interesting comment from a podcast over the weekend.
It's really made me think about my purchases, so I thought I'd share it.
I'm sure there are going to be a certain few who will pour scorn on this, but who cares what they think.

So the comment was regarding buying things to address a want (or a perceived positive gain) versus addressing a problem (removing/reducing a negative).
The person mentioned psychological studies (which I have yet to dig deeper into) that seemed to show that when you buy for positive gain you get a short burst of happiness which quickly dissipates, but addressing a negative was associated with a much longer increase and generally more positive in the long run.
I guess a big part of this is how you perceive things.

It made me think about my coffee upgrade journey.

I got a sage DTP not in the pursuit of better coffee, but to address the weakness of my gaggia, poor temp stability and weak milk steaming.

I then got a Sage BP when I suspected the DTP wasn't up to temp, and was getting sour drinks from light roasts. This worked. But presented another problem.
The Sage BP does a rubbish job of foaming milk, making it far too wet and watery (as the thermojet can't keep up so continually spits water). Rubbish for latte art.

So I was on the search for another machine. I got a La Pavoni, which certainly addressed the foaming issue, as it creates incredible microfoam.

But the 'upgrades' I have done to the LP (such as the pressure profiling kit) have been largely pointless, as I wasn't much interested in pressure profiling in the first place.

As I think about my next potential upgrade, I think I would solely be looking at the weakness of the LP. That being variable temp stability. And the ability to make a decent double shot to be shared between me and wife, as the LP stops short of this by a whisker.

I think *Maybe* this is why some people are not that happy with their upgrades, as they haven't been in the coffee game long enough to know what they want (to address what they don't like!) and therefore go for the shiniest thing they see.

Have a good week!

My grandfather ( a very ordinary country man who only ever had what he needed as did most people back then) used to call it "the glad and the sorrow". Its like Christmas for kids or I suppose holidays for adults, the anticipation is always so much nicer than the real thing as it never lives up to the way your imagination has seamlessly played it out. Also buying things is addictive, and this added to being on a forum with enthusiastic experts discussing machines ect reinforces & feeds the desire to buy or upgrade. I think sometimes you have to stand back , think about the equipment you have got and make the most of it. If you still feel like upgrading and can afford it in a few months then fine but I wouldn't want to be in a cycle of jumping from one thing to the next in the hope of finding that one "perfect" thing because nothing is ever perfect, most things deteriorate and are bypassed by new technology and really being content is everything.

 

[ajohn]

I have a name for some types of market and coffee is one of them. Big boys toys. 🤣 You name it and at some point I have been involved in all of them. Or maybe there are some I am not aware of. They fade and come back at times as well. All have similar features - encouragement to spend more, buy better and etc. Design changes and additional features are a well known technique for gaining and boosting market share. They even have forums and "things" generally get more and more expensive but that's life. Some extreme cases though. Take model aircraft and flying them. Pretty young kids used make them and fly them. I tried my own designs at ~10. It was a relatively cheap hobby. Radio control pushes it up ever increasingly and then come ready to fly and also stuff that more or less flies itself. Helicopters that are likely to need setting up again each time they are flown. There are toys too which helps with kids.

Unusually my coffee journey has been pretty simple other than grinders. First machine picked on how much I was prepared to spend. A BE. I noticed that the taste changed over consecutive shots. Temperature I thought so used it in a way that preheats it adequately. Eventually I found I had press button consistent coffee even with the grinder with some attention to that now and again. Grinder was the main problem so bought another for beans I wanted to try. I saw a BE in an FI track garage this weekend. I assume some one looks after it. Perhaps like coffee shops they always use the same bean. Maybe Sage gave them one.

So then came upgraditus. I noticed a refurbed Sage DB on ebay so bought it. My my main reason was part different basket sizes but far more curiosity. On that basis a refurb made more sense than new. I would buy a new one now.

I'm happy with the drinks I could get out of both machines. The DB offers more scope for playing around than the BE did. Something I have only recently started doing.

Curiosity 🤕 I have 2 other espresso machines of a different type. Both used so I feel I need to check those over rather carefully before use and the garage is not usable until later this year. Will E61 appeal, doubt it, same with HX but there is only one way to find out.