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Espresso machine recommendation

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68 views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  Jumbo Ratty  
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#1 ·
I’m looking for a new non bean to cup espresso machine.
I have a Jura E8 since 2016, which is good and very reliable but the espresso out of it is average at best. I’m also restricted to medium roast because of the inbuilt grinder.
So I fancy buying a more manual type machine with separate grinder. I do have a sage smart grinder which I use for preparing ground beans for an Aeropress. I don’t drink milk coffee.
I suppose budget would be up to £1000 but ideally lower.
UK based.
Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
There’s plenty of online reviews that will guide you. I recently bought a used 6 month old Quick Mill Pop, and I recommend it without hesitation. I find straightforward 9 bar extraction with pre-infusion works extremely well. Although I bought this because it appeared on eBay at a good price, I would pay full price today knowing what I now know. By all accounts the Profitec Go is also excellent, and the Lelit machines are very good but you need to adjust the pressure valve, and their customer support told me that would invalidate the warranty! There is a cheap Chinese machine from Sigma Coffee, but the circuit board is unprotected which would worry me.

Machines do go wrong, so if you live near a dealer for a given brand, consider buying from them for ease of after sales service.

It took me a while to learn to use my machine, and the old rule of 14g ground coffee in, 28g coffee out, ~30 seconds pull time works a treat.
 
#3 ·
Upgrade your grinder at the same time, the sage won't cut it.

Buy a used machine and used grinder and you will do very well with £1000.

Go for a Heat exchanger or dual boiler machine rather than a small single boiler like the Gaggia Classic. Far better suited from a work flow perspective for making more than one coffee and superior steam power that's always ready to go.

Grinder wise, look at Eureka Mignon Specialita or similar if you want a hopper, or a niche zero/df54/df64 etc (many to choose from, have a search on here and see what comes up on the market place) for a single dose grinder.
 
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#4 ·
Surely used is risky unless there’s some warranty left and its transferable. I see Profitec Go’s selling for not far off the new price e.g. £700 versus £850, that’s not worth it in my book. Lelits go for a good sum too. I was lucky, £500 compared to £850+ new, but I think that’s because there’s no reviews on YouTube or online.
 
#5 ·
Nothing wrong with used, proper machines are repairable, ensure the machine has been looked after and well maintained and hopefully it will give long service. All machines will require getting your hands dirty though, basic maintenance, changing parts, descaling, servicing.

Likewise referring used grinders, nothing wrong with them, most are incredibly well built and will last for years.

You have to be patient though and wait for decent machines to turn up on sale sites, forums, be prepared to jump when ready. Forums are my preference, but I have had good luck on Gumtree also.

If you are hopeless with a spanner though, then buying new with a warranty may be preferable, but you won't get much as much for your money.
 
#6 ·
Profitec Go is probably nice as far as small single boiler machines go, but a HX or dual boiler is much much better, especially if you are making several drinks back to back, even more so if you are making milk drinks as you don't need to wait for the boiler to cool back down after steaming milk. If you only ever make one drink at a time though, small machines like that make sense I guess, faster heat up, efficient energy use etc
 
#7 ·
I’ll weigh in with the Profitec Go. I own one.
I make about 4 milk based drinks a day always in batches of 2, and I don’t know how much time people are saving with a duel boiler cos I don’t even think it’s 60 seconds between me pouring my last espresso and me steaming the milk.
hand made in Germany & Italy so the say, and have no reason to doubt that.
Built in PID with shot timer and an adjustable pressure OPV that’s externally accessible.
fast heat up time from switching on, think they made it even faster on the MK2 and very stable temp during shots.
im very impressed with the quality, and it has a smallish footprint, which is sometimes appealing as some people might not have a large space available for them to take over in a kitchen.
I’d go for one of them new, and a 2nd hand niche zero.
 
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#8 ·
If it works for you and your use case that's great, you obviously steam 2 drinks worth of milk at the end of pulling your espresso shots and that's clearly the best way for that machine.
But when you need to go back to pulling a shot you will have to wait for it to cool.

When we have friends over and I end up pulling 4 or 5 drinks or more back to back (in whatever order that is needed, black, white etc), the previous HX and current dual boiler do not break a sweat at this sort of use.

So it all comes down to use case, but personally, after having a HX and now a dual boiler, and additionally recently refurbishing and trying a Gaggia Classic, I decided the Classic with small single boiler was an absolute pain in a back side after coming from HX/DB.
 
#9 ·
Waiting for it to cool takes no time,, I just purge the water out of the group and it’s back down to 93 in seconds
And boiler size is 0.4 L so feel your experience with the tiny 0.1 L boiler of the gaggia classic shouldn’t be used as a yard stick of what a single boiler can do.

out of interest, how long does it take for a duel boiler machine to get up to usable temp after being switched on, and the same question again for a HX machine ?
Is it so long you actually end up just leaving them on all day ?

think running cost must be a consideration what with the cost of electricity

but horses for courses 👍
 
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#10 ·
Agreed. Horses for courses.

We all know they take considerably longer to heat up than a single boiler for sure and will be more expensive to run, that's not disputable, but once up to temp they are stable and can make back to back drinks without downtime and with all the steam power you'll ever need. My Vesuvius has a built in on/off programmable timer for when I want it on, the previous HX I had it on a smart plug, so wasn't really an issue. On weekends if I am home all day then I'll leave it on most of the day and turn it off around 2pm. One advantage of the little Gaggia was the short heat up time, but it was a faff overall for everything else.

100ml Vs 400ml is irrelevant surely, you still have one boiler and 2 thermostats. There will always be waiting time to change temp.

Enjoy your machine, it all comes down to your use case and if it works for you, then it's the right machine for you.
 
#11 ·
100ml v 400ml is a MASSIVE difference
When pulling the shot, let’s say 18g in 32g out that’s a third of the gaggia boiler being filled with cold water during the shot, leading to a big drop in temp of the water running through the puck.
Not so with the 400ml boiler
 
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#13 ·
Good video, I'm not disputing your machine isn't consistent during espresso shots and can definitely see how 400 Vs 100ml makes a difference. Seems a clever and capable machine.

But that wasn't quite what i was referring to, I was challenging the time to change between espresso and steam temperatures, i.e one boiler to deal with 2 thermostats/temps. Which does affect work flow.

I'm not here to change your mind btw, we all make choices on equipment and make it work for us one way or another.
My dual boiler disadvantages are as you say, heat up time and energy usage, but what I get in return is in my opinion worth it for my usage.
 
#14 ·
That points covered at 10.30,,think he says 75 seconds to go from brew to steam, then covers going from steam to brew, again, 75 seconds.
that machine looks like the MK1 and I’m sure I’ve read the MK2 has been made faster in heat up, but that might just be from stone cold to brew group fully heated and ready to GO hence the name 🤗😊😂
 
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