Coffee Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Shot glass for making every cup?

Tags
shot glass for making every cup
Jump to Latest
5.7K views 27 replies 12 participants last post by  mean_beanmachine  
E
#1 ·
How many of you would make a cappuccino, latte... using a shot glass to put the espresso in then pour it in to the cup then add the foamed milk?

Several of my colleges do this, I don't.

I do the espresso straight into the cup whilst heating/foaming the milk - quick tidy easy and no loss of the espresso.

I had training which informed me not to use shot glasses as you loose some of the creme (and flavor), using the glasses takes more time and creates mess. I was told to only use the shot glasses when calibrating and testing the machine and on occasions when the cup was too big to fit under the group handles.

My colleges say they were told to use the shot glasses every time when making a coffee - yet they don't know why and continue to do it (they were given training but by another company).

Any opinions on this?

Customers ask why most the others use shot glasses and I don't. Some ask for their coffee to be made without using a shot glass.
 
#3 ·
If you have a proper process of judging how much coffee you are extracting ( either by weight or by using a volumetric machine ) then you can use any suitable cup.

I suspect shot glasses were used in training so baristas can easily eye ball a volume the shot pulls.

So how do you know how much coffee you extracting espressoman?
 
#4 ·
A lot of us use scales to weigh the output so no shot glass needed. I know a lot of coffee shops doing this too.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
E
#5 ·
Mrboots2u said:
If you have a proper process of judging how much coffee you are extracting ( either by weight or by using a volumetric machine ) then you can use any suitable cup.

I suspect shot glasses were used in training so baristas can easily eye ball a volume the shot pulls.

So how do you know how much coffee you extracting espressoman?
Click to expand...
I do a test every morning before opening up with shot glasses, each side, to check flow rate (20 to 22 sec), colour and amount in the shots. Also check after changing beans, check flow if and when anyone changed the grind and after cleaning.... Once all is good I just use the cups from there on.

Once all is up and running ok, I couldn't see the point of using shot glasses every time, especially when I was originally trained not to and the fact we can be really busy making several cups at a time means doing it in shot glasses results in a slower services and drips of espresso everywhere - which in my opinion doesn't look too good.
 
G
#7 ·
I weigh my output, aiming for 30g out in 25s from 18g in. The cappuccino cups from John Lewis fit perfectly under by Classic's group head on top of the small set of scales I have. I appreciate this isn't practical in a commercial setting, but at home it's fine. As I get better and more consistent, I'll probably just start going by eye.
 
#8 ·
Just as aside you'll get more consistent by weighing, and hopefully tastier shots as a result.. To then revert to eye balling a output will remove the consistency you have achieved...

Good volumetric machines can be a god send for a cafe though.

If you think weighing output works I cant see how stopping a shot based on a scale reading is any more difficult than by an approximate volume ( caveat home environment only , not cafe service with three groups )
 
#9 ·
I used to try with volume, but its too inconsistent and tells you nothing about the mechanics of the shot.

Now i weigh everything. That said, EspressoMan unless you're pouring singles 20-22 seconds seems very short, a double would be nearer 25-30 seconds.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#11 ·
are you doing singles or doubles? pure fact is that 20-22 seconds is too quick for a double.

if you're doing singles then absolutely that's totally fine. But anything over 14g of coffee (and more likely 17-18 these days) needs at least 25 seconds to form a proper extraction, no matter what machine. That's if flavour rather than speed is your goal. If its about speed and turnover, then the end product is always going to take second fiddle.

I'm fairly friendly with most of Edinburgh's top end coffee shops and owners, and there's not a single one (many with baristas that have competed in the WBC) that pulls a double for anything less than 25 seconds, most aim for 27-30.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#13 ·
shrink said:
are you doing singles or doubles? pure fact is that 20-22 seconds is too quick for a double.

if you're doing singles then absolutely that's totally fine. But anything over 14g of coffee (and more likely 17-18 these days) needs at least 25 seconds to form a proper extraction, no matter what machine. That's if flavour rather than speed is your goal. If its about speed and turnover, then the end product is always going to take second fiddle.

I'm fairly friendly with most of Edinburgh's top end coffee shops and owners, and there's not a single one (many with baristas that have competed in the WBC) that pulls a double for anything less than 25 seconds, most aim for 27-30.
Click to expand...
There are some exceptions

What about if you pull A double ristretto by stopping early at 20-22 seconds

Granted this won't be your 2 fl ounces

Some baristas will do this ...

Plus you can extract shots of high extraction yield in 20 seconds , but it does require the dreaded EK43

Cheers
 
#14 ·
I do this when i get new beans for the first few shots, so i can weigh my extractions, when I'm about there, i then do it straight into cups.. i hate doing it as so much creama is left on the glass but need to get my weights right!!
:)


although as i pour the shot out i get a small spoon and at the same time as pouring i skim the top of the espresso to help get all the lovely creama in!!
 
#17 ·
Mrboots2u said:
There are some exceptions

What about if you pull A double ristretto by stopping early at 20-22 seconds

Granted this won't be your 2 fl ounces

Some baristas will do this ...

Plus you can extract shots of high extraction yield in 20 seconds , but it does require the dreaded EK43

Cheers
Click to expand...
Perhaps theres a lack of clarity on what a ristretto is... as far as I'm aware, ristretto is NOT pulling out the shot early and getting only part of the flow.

Ristretto as I've always understood it (and as smokey barns videos seem to descibe it) is tightening up your grind, so you get a much lower ratio for the same amount of time. The time is the one aspect that shouldnt be variable.

To me a ristretto should be something closer to a 1:1 ratio or possible 1:1.2 in 25-30 seconds rather than a 1:1.6 ratio in the same period of time.

The idea of pulling the shout out at 20-22 seconds to extract the sweeter part of the pour is a very different way of approaching things.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#21 ·
For sure, this whole system needs some revision, to make it meaningful & universally transferable...I propose we start by defining the difference between a maxi-mega-ristretto and a short-mini-normale, I reckon there's got to be at least a ferret's ear socket in volume of difference, otherwise your just taking the piss! Oh yeah, the maxi-mega-ristretto should also be more coquettish, y'know, but not unintelligent, more prince of wales check than dogtooth?

Or...no, it's silly....but, hang on....no, it'll never fly...but I was thinking maybe we could espress (don't think you can hide "x", it's your turn next...) it like a ratio? A universally recogniseable, measurable parameter? No, sorry, forget that...it would lead to people being able to communicate effectively & who wants that?
:exit:
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
shrink said:
my ristretto's are 1:1-1:1.2

my normales are 1:1.5-1.1.6

anything longer and I don't enjoy the taste.
Click to expand...
That's kind of the issue with arbitrary names, everyone has an idea of what it means to them personally, but how do you convince others of the merit, or establish a common syntax. Ristrettos have historically been regarded as longer than your normales, despite your normales being fairly normal. 1:1 & 1:1.2 shots are going to be hard to extract nominally (but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't be very drinkable), then we're into the realms of making a different drink, where the flavour is shifted as a result of pulling short, rather than balanced at a range of lengths.

FWIW I have very much enjoyed 1:1 shots, but you typically need to go longer to fully develop the flavour, maybe 1:1.3 to 1:1.4, if your gear/prep will allow...

Here is the Italian ISO 45011 standard on "Espresso", if it's shorter than that range, I guess you could call it a ristretto?

http://www.espressoitaliano.org/files/File/istituzionale_inei_hq_en.pdf
 
E
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Mrboots2u said:
So what's your cafes " recipe " for its espresso then? What dose in to what ( presumably volume ) out ?

What's the machine to?/
Click to expand...
The machine is la spaziale s5 like the one in the link below.

http://www.coffeereal.co.uk/images/products/la-spaziale-s5-ek1281.jpg

The " recipe " as I know it is:

Fine grind, 7g for single, 14g for double, tamp 15-12k, 8-9bar, 20-25 secs.

If the extraction time is not within that we adjust the grind slightly (especially after bean jam in the hopper).

You ask about the recipe because...?

How would that determine if one should use shot glasses for each coffee then into the cup? Surly checking with shot glasses occasionally, through the day is sufficient, and then doing it into cups from then on?
 
Coffee Forums
posts
904K
members
44K
Since
2008
A forum community dedicated to coffee enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about collections, retailers, beans, grinders, brewers, technical maintenance, models, styles, teas, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Coffee Lounge ☮❤ Coffee Accessories Coffee Beans Gaggia Forum All Grinders & Hand-Grinders